Sturgeon: SC ruling risks making trans lives "unliveable"

[SidewaysOtter]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/06/transgender-peoples-lives-at-risk-of-being-made-unliveable-says-nicola-sturgeon

“It certainly doesn’t make a single woman any safer to do that because the threat to women comes from predatory and abusive men.”

You don't get it, do you Nic love? I don't have enough eye-rolls for the idea that trans-identified men are never predatory or abusive, especially in the face of so much evidence to the contrary.

"The former first minister and SNP leader added that it is not “inevitable” that the judgment will make the lives of transgender people “impossibly difficult”, but there was a “danger” that certain interpretations could put transgender rights at risk."

What rights? The SC ruling clarified the law as it is and always has been, which is that trans people don't have the right to treated as if they were the opposite sex. Or does she just mean "It's really unfair that they're going to have to abide by the same rules as everyone else rather than demanding special privileges"?

As a long-time subscriber of the NS, I have not been impressed by their decision to give Nicola a nice little job as a book reviewer! That soon cancellled up the brownie points I had awarded them for adding Hannah Barnes to their staff! The front of the woman; she is lucky she's not in jail.

She's a fucking liar, basically.

She was my MSP for a while and she was fucking dreadful. Entirely focussed on her own ambition. She did have skill as a politician, put on a good performance and mastered spin, but it's increasingly worn thin. Her mannerisms and speech patterns are well rehearsed - they were effective for a while, but they now drive me up the fucking wall. I suppose she's playing to the gallery.

She's still apparently appealing for some, seeing the reflection of a great leader in a shallow puddle on a hot day.

Maybe she's not very bright

The only way in which I can see that the ruling " makes trans lives unliveable" is, maybe, in the sense that the illusion of one's 'gender identity' being the exact same thing as one' s sex has now been shattered...apart from that - all that is required to go about one's business is a unisex facility and some dedicated services.

Alex Massie's comment on NS in the Times today. I think it can be summarized with "yesterday's jam"
https://www.thetimes.com/article/27cf4a44-8d30-44e4-878e-e2e7fcba6e3d?shareToken=9f42e2d901faf91ed515a2cdb6ff1220

'...when the mighty fall, they tumble hard. The Sturgeon government’s gender recognition reforms now serve as shorthand for a broader appraisal: her government, even more than most, privileged symbolism over substance and magical thinking over reality. Her later days were a series of policy disasters and political embarrassments.'

I sense you're somewhat peeved, Arabella!

“It certainly doesn’t make a single woman any safer to do that because the threat to women comes from predatory and abusive men.”

Correct. But as I've said all along men don't need to go through all the time and trouble of becoming trans just to commit a sex offence in a woman's space. There's nothing stopping a cisgendered man just walking into a woman's toilet and doing something.

The 5+ years Britain has spent obsessing about trans people now isn't of benefit to anyone and isn't actually addressing the root cause of why male violence happens in the first place. It's all about IMHO having a target group of people to blame and demonise. In the 90s it was homosexuals but now open homophobia isn't tolerated anymore people seem to have moved onto trans people instead or homophobia in disguise (I notice a lot of gay individuals, gay establishments and gay rights charities are attacked and demonised by the GC community too if they support trans people which most do).

Christinapple · Yesterday 23:32

But as I've said all along men don't need to go through all the time and trouble of becoming trans just to commit a sex offence in a woman's space.

Well come on, don't leave us hanging! Enlighten us; why DO they go through all that to attack women in toilets, film these masteurbating into lingerie in Marks and Sparks, intimidate nurses in the changing rooms, demanding to know if they're going to get undressed, etc etc ad infinitum, ad nauseam?

Correct. But as I've said all along men don't need to go through all the time and trouble of becoming trans just to commit a sex offence in a woman's space. There's nothing stopping a cisgendered man just walking into a woman's toilet and doing something

What 'time and trouble'? They don't need to do anything except say 'I identify as a woman' if questioned. Then, bam, women can't question them in their spaces.

You know this, yet you continue to make disingenuous points.

Shona Robison was foolish enough to say this just before the whole Isla Bryson situation came to public attention.

Made her look a credulous fool. Just saying.

It’s of benefit to women socially, politically and from a safety pov to be able to organise among ourselves and have use of some designated single sex services.

Male violence isn’t women’s problem to solve. You appear to hold us responsible for it yet attack us for wanting to be keep ourselves safer from it. I don’t like that view at all.

You know this, yet you continue to make disingenuous points.

Almost as if wanting to demonstrate how much time and trouble men can go to to harass women if sufficiently obsessesed.

Christinapple has spent I don't know how many hours over how many months trying to disrupt women from fighting for their own spaces.

Yet a man couldn't be arsed to make a far smaller effort for himself if similarly obsessed with getting into women's spaces?

Uh huh.

Correct. But as I've said all along men don't need to go through all the time and trouble of becoming trans just to commit a sex offence in a woman's space. There's nothing stopping a cisgendered man just walking into a woman's toilet and doing something.

Which is exactly why it needs to be easy to block them or chuck them out before they commit that offense. Rather than the attempt to chuck them out turning into a Wi Spa "She must be trans - why are you so bigoted?" situation.

Sturgeon will never admit to being wrong about anything

The social contract prevented men from entering. The shame, the humiliation, the ability we had to call the police and have them charged - that had been taken from us.

That's the difference.

But you've had this repeatedly explained to you over and over and over and over and over again.

As to homophobia, gay people took no rights from any other group and didn't seek to remove womens rights or spaces, @Christinapple . Also, trans is the current homophobia (and misogyny) rebadged, since, it's a homophobic (denies sex attraction and calls same sex attraction 'sexual racism') movement at it's very DNA and nucleus.

In the 90s it was homosexuals but now open homophobia isn't tolerated anymore people seem to have moved onto trans people instead

Which is precisely why the trans movement attached itself to LGB. In the 90s queer was a slur but the TQ+ are all embracing their 'queerness' whilst being so supposedly happy but it's also a fuck you to the LGBs they're so hateful of.

Important to note also that the trans movement is just repackaged homophobia.

Denying the reality of same sex attraction

Badgering lesbians to accept men in their dating pool

Telling gender non conforming children that there's something wrong with them - 'born in the wrong body'

'transing away the gay'

It's absolutely outrageous that anyone thinks the TRAs are 'progressive' - they're the exact opposite

Of course men will stay out of women's spaces more if it's both illegal and socially unacceptable. They were never enforced by anti-man force fields. But if we can challenge people without being traduced AND there can be legal consequences, that's how all laws are enforced. No, we will never have a crimeless society but we don't fix that by making bad shit legal, ffs. And Chris and his mates know this. That's why they're so pissed off that they lost the legal battle, so they now know they never had the law on their side, and they're now continuing to try to force the social contract by any means possible. Because social contracts work, and it's all they've got, even while they deny it exists.

Gay people got their rights because they took nothing from anyone else; gay marriage has no effect on anyone else. They also didn't insist that every space on earth adhere to it. Religious communities that don't recognise gay marriage remain and gay people accept that, they just go elsewhere to marry. They have the right in law and so they just use one of the many services that will accommodate them.

Trans activists want to take women's rights to sex segregated spaces, including sports, domestic abuse refuges, changing rooms and lesbian dating, away from them and make it illegal to exclude men from anywhere. They want an external reflection of themselves from everyone else and to redefine everyone else. Gay people never made any such demands. It's a fundamentally different movement.

Quite.

I must say, it’s hilarious to see Chris piously opining on the amount of time wasted arguing about this issue. Consider how you spend your own time perhaps?

It really grinds my gears because, like all of us, it absolutely infuriates me how much time and resources we have had to waste for YEARS fighting the stupidity and absurdity of the idea that men can be women and there's nothing wrong with letting them self select into women's everything. We could indeed have achieved so much more if we hadn't had to argue basic reality with an army of perverts, shysters, frauds, liars, cheats and plain fucking idiots for years, but they made us and now here we are.

How come, in all this time, the two most obvious and best solutions - third spaces and a campaign to keep TW safe in men's spaces - were never raised and continue not to be?

Just reflecting, on any other site which was even vaguely trans-friendly (and there's plenty of then), anyone posting even mildly gender-critical views would be drummed out so fast their feet wouldn't touch the fucking ground. Meanwhile, on MN, Christinapple continues to trot out this dishonest and repetitive bullshit... forever? 😡

He really doesn't see that all this time he and they wasted on attempting remove every hard gained right women have could have been spent on building shelters for trans people, spaces etc. Now, he and they are whingeing they won't have anywhere to go. Well DUH! Women fought for our places and our spaces. Transwomen want to take, seize, colonise by stealth and not have to lift a finger. Too fucking bad for them! They don't get to steal from others. Typical Male Pattern behaviour. All that time the colonising patriarchal trans women wasted. And they are further behind. FAFO. Women don't ever give up. Ever. Ever! They found that out the hard way.

Again the contradictions here are astounding.

Women fear preditory men therefore women should stop demanding their right to single sex spaces and accept men in?

I'm sure this has been explained to you before but women just want men to stay out of their single sex spaces. This is spaces designated for biological women only. So no biological men (regardless of how they present, identify or what pieces of paper they have) allowed.

As a pp said this a problem for men to work out.