Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:36

I've copied it in full.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw&s=19

In light of recent open letters from academia and the arts criticising the UK's Supreme Court ruling on sex-based rights, it's possibly worth remembering that nobody sane believes, or has ever believed, that humans can change sex, or that binary sex isn't a material fact. These letters do nothing but remind us of what we know only too well: that pretending to believe these things has become an elitist badge of virtue.

I often wonder whether the signatories of such letters have to quieten their consciences before publicly boosting a movement intent on removing women's and girls' rights, which bullies gay people who admit openly they don't want opposite sex partners, and campaigns for the continued sterilisation of vulnerable and troubled kids. Do they feel any qualms at all while chanting the foundational lie of their religion: Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men?

I have no idea. All I know for sure is that it's a complete waste of time telling a gender activist that their favourite slogan is self-contradictory nonsense, because the lie is the whole point. They're not repeating it because it's true - they know full well it's not true - but because they believe they can make it true, sort of, if they force everyone else to agree. The foundational lie functions as both catechism and crucifix: the set form of words that obviates the tedious necessity of coming up with your own explanation of why you're one of the Godly, and an exorcist's weapon which will defeat demonic facts and reason, and promote the advance of righteous pseudoscience and sophistry.

Some argue that signatories of these sorts of letters are motivated by fear: fear for their careers, of course, but also fear of their co-religionists, who include angry, narcissistic men who threaten and sometimes enact violence on non-believers; back-stabbing colleagues ever ready to report wrongthink; the online shamers and doxxers and rape threateners, and, of course, the influential zealots in the upper echelons of liberal professions (though we can quibble whether they're actually liberal at all, given the draconian authoritarianism that seems to have engulfed so many). Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?

But before we start feeling too sorry for any cowed and fearful TWAWites who're TERFy on the sly, let's not forget what a high proportion of them have willingly snatched up pitchforks and torches to join the inquisitional purges. Call me lacking in proper womanly sympathy, but I find the harm they've enabled and in some cases directly championed or funded - the hounding and shaming of vulnerable women, the forced loss of livelihoods, the unregulated medical experiment on minors - tends to dry up my tears at source.

History is littered with the debris of irrational and harmful belief systems that once seemed unassailable. As Orwell said, 'Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.' Gender ideology may have embedded itself deeply into our institutions, where it's been imposed, top-down, on the supposedly unenlightened, but it is not invulnerable.

Court losses are starting to stack up. The condescension, overreach, entitlement and aggression of gender activists is eroding public support daily. Women are fighting back and winning significant victories. Sporting bodies have miraculously awoken from their slumber and remembered that males tend to be larger, stronger and faster than females. Parts of the medical establishment are questioning cutting healthy breasts off teenaged girls is really the best way to fix their mental health problems.

One seemingly harmless little white lie - Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men - uttered in most cases without any real thought at all, and a few short years later, people who think of themselves as supremely virtuous are typing 'yes, rapists' pronouns are absolutely the hill I'll die on,' rubbing shoulders with those who call for women to be hanged and decapitated for wanting all-female rape crisis centres, and furiously denying clear and mounting evidence of the greatest medical scandal in a century.

I wonder if they ever ask themselves how they got here, and I wonder whether any of them will ever feel shame.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?s=19&t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw

OP posts:
Thread gallery
36
MellowCritic · 04/05/2025 09:38

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 04/05/2025 09:32

Citations please for her supporting the Israeli government, and not your opinion, but actual, verifiable facts that she supports it, you know like words out of her own mouth?

Go online and see for yourself. Plenty there for you. I'm surprised you're here acting so sure of yourself. Where as she hasn't come out and said she supports killing of civilians (no one ever does) she does not condemn their actions (for someone so vocal ) and in fact supports their perspective. Go and educate yourself historically before you come at me. Go and find me an article where she supports women and children in gaza and condemns the Israeli government for their actions ... ill be here waiting.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:38

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:33

I said a few pages back that I think third spaces are the most reasonable solution.

So, they are not 'living' as their chosen sex then? They are living as someone who has a transgender identity?

OK.

NecessaryScene · 04/05/2025 09:38

By your own logic they’re not going to be living as women then, are they.

No, hang on, I think this is a concession that the head-covering "social role" is distinct from the real sex separation.

So the "living as a woman" is purely within the subculture with the social roles. Not in the secular society.

Datun · 04/05/2025 09:39

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:35

I think third spaces are the answer.

But if TW wanted to go round dressing in skirts and makeup, because she happens to like that, that's fine because she wouldn't be having an impact on anyone else.

Well there's the rub, you see.

Nobody really minds if men wear make-up and have long hair, we have had the 80s, after all, not to mention the 18th century

It's the concept that wearing make up and having long hair makes them a woman.

It doesn't. That would be biology

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 04/05/2025 09:40

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:13

Same - as a sign of respect to the divine presence above their heads.

So in your temple women covering their hair is not connected to modesty?

(sorry I’m not sure if you’re referring only to your particular temple or being more general?)

Discombobble · 04/05/2025 09:41

Candlesandmatches · 03/05/2025 20:47

Shame about the anti Carholic rhetoric. But I agree with her message.

What anti-catholic rhetoric? Are you still for torturing heretics?

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:41

BackToLurk · 04/05/2025 09:27

So we are back to cultural specificity. You’re underlining here that this ‘living as a woman’ doesn’t exist as any sort of universal concept. Whereas ‘being’ a woman, biologically female, does. Do you not see how ridiculous this is?

I don't understand what you're saying is ridiculous.

I'm saying that I'm OK with trans women, because I believe most of them are genuine. But I appreciate that not all women feel that way, so I think third spaces are the answer. Outside of the spaces issue, I think trans folk should live however they please.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:42

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:37

Not in terms of the spaces they inhabit, no.

I wouldn't mind sharing with fully transitioned women, but I appreciate not every woman feels that way, so third spaces seem to be best compromise.

Have you worked out in what way a male person who has lost their penis and testes and is on exogenous hormones for disease is different to the male person who has chosen to do this to fit their philosophical belief?

Why should one of them have access to female single sex spaces (that you don't mind sharing but others do) and the other doesn't?

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 04/05/2025 09:42

BackToLurk · 04/05/2025 09:37

Lots of women don’t wear skirts and make up, are they ‘living as men’?

Does that mean I’m only a woman on the days I wear a skirt or dress, but when I’m in trousers and no make up I’m a man?! Dear me, it seems I’ve been womaning wrong again 🤦‍♀️

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:42

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 04/05/2025 09:40

So in your temple women covering their hair is not connected to modesty?

(sorry I’m not sure if you’re referring only to your particular temple or being more general?)

Correct.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 09:43

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:37

Not in terms of the spaces they inhabit, no.

I wouldn't mind sharing with fully transitioned women, but I appreciate not every woman feels that way, so third spaces seem to be best compromise.

Thats fine then, your personal beliefs aren’t an issue for me. I simply disagree.

sanluca · 04/05/2025 09:43

MellowCritic · 04/05/2025 09:38

Go online and see for yourself. Plenty there for you. I'm surprised you're here acting so sure of yourself. Where as she hasn't come out and said she supports killing of civilians (no one ever does) she does not condemn their actions (for someone so vocal ) and in fact supports their perspective. Go and educate yourself historically before you come at me. Go and find me an article where she supports women and children in gaza and condemns the Israeli government for their actions ... ill be here waiting.

Edited

Why does she have to? I mean, just see the abuse she gets for campaigning on a domestic issue she is passionate about. Why would she give an opinion on any of the many wars fought out there? Get another billionaire to step up (preferably a male one this time because apart from Bill Gates and female billionaires, no male ones seem to care) and stop harrassing one that is doing more for other causes than you and I could ever do in a lifetime.

JK, every year she loses billionaire status because she gives away so much money and still it is not enough

Waitwhat23 · 04/05/2025 09:44

SingtotheCat · 04/05/2025 09:32

The Supreme Court and JKR have spoken. The law is the law.
I’d like us to appropriate Stonewall’s “NO DEBATE” right about now. It would make a good sticker in the right colours.

I prefer Operation Let Them Speak. The current tantruming and footstamping and hyperbole by TRA's since the SC judgement is peaking so many people. The mass and very public outpouring of hate and threats towards women at recent protests makes it very obvious that, at its core, gender ideology is misogyny on steroids.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:44

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:35

I think third spaces are the answer.

But if TW wanted to go round dressing in skirts and makeup, because she happens to like that, that's fine because she wouldn't be having an impact on anyone else.

Of course. Nobody cares if a man wants to wear skirts and makeup.

We just don't want men in women's prisons, refuges, changing rooms, etc.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:45

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:44

Of course. Nobody cares if a man wants to wear skirts and makeup.

We just don't want men in women's prisons, refuges, changing rooms, etc.

And we don't want to be compelled to changed our language to suit them.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:46

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 04/05/2025 09:42

Does that mean I’m only a woman on the days I wear a skirt or dress, but when I’m in trousers and no make up I’m a man?! Dear me, it seems I’ve been womaning wrong again 🤦‍♀️

Unfortunately, due to our gender boxes, men can't wear makeup or skirts and heels if they want to, which I think is a pity. There's really no reason why they can't, except for social conditioning. It's not like they're going to burst into flames if they put a skirt on. I agree that mode of dress isn't tied to biological sex.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:46

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:45

And we don't want to be compelled to changed our language to suit them.

And we don't want children being given hormones or surgery to change their healthy bodies, based on a pseudo religious idea that they are 'born in the wrong body'.

HereForTheFreeLunch · 04/05/2025 09:46

10 years, 10 court cases, a SC ruling and here we are still with Datun patiently explaining why cyclical definitions don't work and what constitutes a stereotype. (Maybe the patience has run a bit thin... but oh my God! 🧱 😡 Head bang on brick wall)

And of course, JKR isn't saintly enough. It's never enough or it's all the wrong type of thing or something.

ThatCyanCat · 04/05/2025 09:47

MellowCritic · 04/05/2025 09:38

Go online and see for yourself. Plenty there for you. I'm surprised you're here acting so sure of yourself. Where as she hasn't come out and said she supports killing of civilians (no one ever does) she does not condemn their actions (for someone so vocal ) and in fact supports their perspective. Go and educate yourself historically before you come at me. Go and find me an article where she supports women and children in gaza and condemns the Israeli government for their actions ... ill be here waiting.

Edited

And now it's the "she hasn't taken a public stance on every single issue so..." thing. This is exhausting.

The only thing I've seen her do is speak out against antisemitism. I assume you haven't got an issue with her doing that.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 04/05/2025 09:47

MellowCritic · 04/05/2025 09:38

Go online and see for yourself. Plenty there for you. I'm surprised you're here acting so sure of yourself. Where as she hasn't come out and said she supports killing of civilians (no one ever does) she does not condemn their actions (for someone so vocal ) and in fact supports their perspective. Go and educate yourself historically before you come at me. Go and find me an article where she supports women and children in gaza and condemns the Israeli government for their actions ... ill be here waiting.

Edited

“The Palestinian community has suffered untold injustice and brutality. I want to see the Israeli government held to account for that injustice and brutality,”

There you go. Next.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/harry-potter-would-be-disappointed-with-my-stance-on-israel-boycott-jk-rowling-says-a6710916.html

Here's what JK Rowling has to say to those criticising her stance on Israel

The author explains her stance after fans claimed she had 'ruined their childhood'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/harry-potter-would-be-disappointed-with-my-stance-on-israel-boycott-jk-rowling-says-a6710916.html

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:47

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:44

Of course. Nobody cares if a man wants to wear skirts and makeup.

We just don't want men in women's prisons, refuges, changing rooms, etc.

Yes, lots of women feel strongly against it, which is why third spaces should be the answer.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 09:47

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:45

And we don't want to be compelled to changed our language to suit them.

No, exactly. I want to be able to be clear that I know these people are men, not any kind of woman.

Datun · 04/05/2025 09:48

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:41

I don't understand what you're saying is ridiculous.

I'm saying that I'm OK with trans women, because I believe most of them are genuine. But I appreciate that not all women feel that way, so I think third spaces are the answer. Outside of the spaces issue, I think trans folk should live however they please.

You need to look at the concept, not just the practicality.

if we are going to have laws and policies based on sex, then we have to have an understanding of what sex is.

And it can't be superficial things like gender roles, clothes, make up or who makes the bread.

We have to have a definition that works across the board. And the only one that does that is biological sex. Adult human female.

You can say, til the cows come home, that you don't mind sharing spaces with men under these conditions, or in those circumstances, or other women have a different context, but, at the end of the day, in order to protect women's rights, we have to have laws that work.

Without a defining concept of sex that protects women, the laws won't work. Hence how TRAS could persuade people that the GRA impacted the equality act so detrimentally, until the Supreme Court clarified it no it doesn't, because sex means biological sex, and woman means biological woman.

This isn't a game, or a thought experiment, full of what ifs, or a how about if one person does this and another person disagrees.

It has to be consistent and coherent.

And watertight.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 09:48

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:46

And we don't want children being given hormones or surgery to change their healthy bodies, based on a pseudo religious idea that they are 'born in the wrong body'.

Yes, that too.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:49

StuckUpPrincess · 03/05/2025 23:56

I find JK and the court ruling to be transphobic. While I don't think that transwomen should compete in women's sports, and I think that only trans people who have obtained GRCs should be allowed to use the women's loos and changing rooms, I also think it's awful to treat transpeople as if they don't exist. And that's what the UK Supreme Court ruling does. If someone who has fully transitioned can't use the women's loos and changing rooms, where are they meant to go? They'll get beaten up and harassed if they use the men's. But no one seems to care about that. They do exist and always have, and lots of transwomen will have used the loos with you and you're none the wiser.

I think what it comes down to is that JK and people who agree with her do not believe that there is any such thing as a genuine transwoman. That is, someone who feels that they are a woman inside, transitions to be female as far as is possible, just wants to continue with their lives, and has no interest whatsoever in doing anything harmful towards anyone.

JK and her followers seem to believe that every transwoman is some pervert in disguise and that they can't possibly be genuine.

I strongly disagree.

Is the court ruling which states that third spaces should be offerred where possible and something that JKR agrees with, transphobic? Or not?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.