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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:36

I've copied it in full.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw&s=19

In light of recent open letters from academia and the arts criticising the UK's Supreme Court ruling on sex-based rights, it's possibly worth remembering that nobody sane believes, or has ever believed, that humans can change sex, or that binary sex isn't a material fact. These letters do nothing but remind us of what we know only too well: that pretending to believe these things has become an elitist badge of virtue.

I often wonder whether the signatories of such letters have to quieten their consciences before publicly boosting a movement intent on removing women's and girls' rights, which bullies gay people who admit openly they don't want opposite sex partners, and campaigns for the continued sterilisation of vulnerable and troubled kids. Do they feel any qualms at all while chanting the foundational lie of their religion: Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men?

I have no idea. All I know for sure is that it's a complete waste of time telling a gender activist that their favourite slogan is self-contradictory nonsense, because the lie is the whole point. They're not repeating it because it's true - they know full well it's not true - but because they believe they can make it true, sort of, if they force everyone else to agree. The foundational lie functions as both catechism and crucifix: the set form of words that obviates the tedious necessity of coming up with your own explanation of why you're one of the Godly, and an exorcist's weapon which will defeat demonic facts and reason, and promote the advance of righteous pseudoscience and sophistry.

Some argue that signatories of these sorts of letters are motivated by fear: fear for their careers, of course, but also fear of their co-religionists, who include angry, narcissistic men who threaten and sometimes enact violence on non-believers; back-stabbing colleagues ever ready to report wrongthink; the online shamers and doxxers and rape threateners, and, of course, the influential zealots in the upper echelons of liberal professions (though we can quibble whether they're actually liberal at all, given the draconian authoritarianism that seems to have engulfed so many). Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?

But before we start feeling too sorry for any cowed and fearful TWAWites who're TERFy on the sly, let's not forget what a high proportion of them have willingly snatched up pitchforks and torches to join the inquisitional purges. Call me lacking in proper womanly sympathy, but I find the harm they've enabled and in some cases directly championed or funded - the hounding and shaming of vulnerable women, the forced loss of livelihoods, the unregulated medical experiment on minors - tends to dry up my tears at source.

History is littered with the debris of irrational and harmful belief systems that once seemed unassailable. As Orwell said, 'Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.' Gender ideology may have embedded itself deeply into our institutions, where it's been imposed, top-down, on the supposedly unenlightened, but it is not invulnerable.

Court losses are starting to stack up. The condescension, overreach, entitlement and aggression of gender activists is eroding public support daily. Women are fighting back and winning significant victories. Sporting bodies have miraculously awoken from their slumber and remembered that males tend to be larger, stronger and faster than females. Parts of the medical establishment are questioning cutting healthy breasts off teenaged girls is really the best way to fix their mental health problems.

One seemingly harmless little white lie - Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men - uttered in most cases without any real thought at all, and a few short years later, people who think of themselves as supremely virtuous are typing 'yes, rapists' pronouns are absolutely the hill I'll die on,' rubbing shoulders with those who call for women to be hanged and decapitated for wanting all-female rape crisis centres, and furiously denying clear and mounting evidence of the greatest medical scandal in a century.

I wonder if they ever ask themselves how they got here, and I wonder whether any of them will ever feel shame.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?s=19&t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw

OP posts:
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36
Igneococcus · 04/05/2025 06:52

I mean, trans people do exist and live ordinary lives as their chosen opposite sex to the one they were born.

Oh finally someone might be able to tell as how you live as someone of a particular sex.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 06:56

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 06:45

What definition of delusion are you basing this on? What makes you think people with delusions don't have jobs and marriages?

You said that trans people are delusional. Therefore, you meant that they are living under a permanent delusion. Delusions are a symptom of serious mental illness. So if trans people are delusional, they must be very unwell. How can someone live a normal productive life if they are so unwell that they are always delusional?

The answer, of course, is that transpeople are not delusional.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 06:59

Igneococcus · 04/05/2025 06:52

I mean, trans people do exist and live ordinary lives as their chosen opposite sex to the one they were born.

Oh finally someone might be able to tell as how you live as someone of a particular sex.

I knew that would come up. The obfuscating as to what it means to live as the opposite sex. The pointing out that there's no such thing as a masculine or feminine presentation. It's part of the same rebuttal by the JK side that refuses to believe any TW can pass and that they can always tell.

I believe you know what it means to live as a woman and to live as a man.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:01

TimeForATerf · 04/05/2025 06:32

Come on mate, bring yourself up to speed, do you still wear clothes from 2015 too? It’s time for you to start reading a bit more and put those skinnies in the charity bag.

I'm not sure what in my post is not up-to-date.

Igneococcus · 04/05/2025 07:02

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 06:59

I knew that would come up. The obfuscating as to what it means to live as the opposite sex. The pointing out that there's no such thing as a masculine or feminine presentation. It's part of the same rebuttal by the JK side that refuses to believe any TW can pass and that they can always tell.

I believe you know what it means to live as a woman and to live as a man.

No I don't, explain to me what it means to live as a woman. What does it involve?
I'm not talking about passing. I have never seen a transwoman that passes when seen in real life, or without filters and when moving.

DefineHappy · 04/05/2025 07:02

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 06:59

I knew that would come up. The obfuscating as to what it means to live as the opposite sex. The pointing out that there's no such thing as a masculine or feminine presentation. It's part of the same rebuttal by the JK side that refuses to believe any TW can pass and that they can always tell.

I believe you know what it means to live as a woman and to live as a man.

No, I only know what it is like to live as a woman, as I was born female.

I have no idea what it is to live like a man - I have no idea what they think, feel and believe, as females are not males and therefore cannot have genuine knowledge or appreciation of BEING male.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 07:03

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 06:56

You said that trans people are delusional. Therefore, you meant that they are living under a permanent delusion. Delusions are a symptom of serious mental illness. So if trans people are delusional, they must be very unwell. How can someone live a normal productive life if they are so unwell that they are always delusional?

The answer, of course, is that transpeople are not delusional.

Are you perhaps confusing 'delusion' with 'psychosis'?

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 07:06

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 06:59

I knew that would come up. The obfuscating as to what it means to live as the opposite sex. The pointing out that there's no such thing as a masculine or feminine presentation. It's part of the same rebuttal by the JK side that refuses to believe any TW can pass and that they can always tell.

I believe you know what it means to live as a woman and to live as a man.

Well no, no I don’t. Please do explain. Surely thinking there is only one way to live as a woman or a man is very sexist? Every woman will live their lives differently so how would a man know what it is to live as a woman? He could only live as his idea of what a woman thinks feels and acts, and that is extremely sexist no? To base womanhood on how a man sees it?

GiveMeSpanakopita · 04/05/2025 07:09

NOT ONE WORD OF A LIE.

God I love this woman. Brave, independent-minded, principled.

Everything her detractors pretend to be and are not.

EweSurname · 04/05/2025 07:14

There have been so many threads even on Mumsnet about advocating for third spaces. Here’s one, randomly picked, from as far back as 2018:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3301958-Whats-wrong-with-fighting-for-the-third-space

Worth a quick browse to see that the pushback on this idea largely falls into the “it is like making them sit at the back of buses” camp

What's wrong with fighting for the third space? | Mumsnet

Can't we resolve all these Trans vs feminist issues with a third space option? Male/Female as well as unisex intimate spaces ^Unisex for those who...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3301958-Whats-wrong-with-fighting-for-the-third-space

TimeForATerf · 04/05/2025 07:17

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:01

I'm not sure what in my post is not up-to-date.

Your OP is dated, it’s like stepping back in time, a number of posters have responded to you since and you are backtracking slightly, which shows you are reading and taking it in.

Your OP is probably where many of us were a decade ago. In fact where I might have been just five years ago. It was the JKR backlash that started my journey, I asked what had she really done so wrong, was this famous author really so hateful? No, no she wasn’t, no she isn’t, she has done more for women’s rights than any other, the reason men’s activists hate her is because she can’t be cancelled.

The pen is mightier than the sword. She has a platform probably only second to Elon Musk. She has more FAFO money than any of us could dream of. And they HATE that.

Keep reading, I actually don’t believe for a second in two years time you will believe that people are born in the wrong body and we should all just be kind and talk about it rationally. The ship sailed a long time ago.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:18

But I wanted to come back to you on this point: you said it wasn’t fair on harmless trans people for them to be lumped in with others.
Can I ask: do you apply the same logic to men? Because the same applies. We know there are many, many lovely men but we keep them all out because a small minority are violent and rapey.

We don't always keep them out. Back in 1990 a new pool was built in my town and the changing rooms are mixed - I was always a bit shocked about that! Just one set of changing rooms. Mixed changing rooms and unisex loos - usually single ones, admittedly - have become more common. I think some shops have mixed changing rooms too - although not communal ones, obviously. Anyway, since we can't tell who's harmless and who isn't, I do agree that third spaces are the way. You said that some TW get angry about that - well, they should accept the compromise. Why would they want to upset people? If I was trans, and I was aware that some women felt uncomfortable because of me (whether I'd had surgery or not) I'd gladly use a third space.

I don't agree that trans women will be safe in male loos, if they've transitioned to the extent that they can't switch back to a male look. They're very likely to get beaten up.

I can't speak to your points about TW being attracted to women as I don't have stats about that or about who's more likely to attack who.

I'd like to independently verify the info in the graph you posted, because when I read about sexual attacks in the papers, I don't ever remember the report saying that the perp was trans. So I'd be surprised if the data is accurate, but I'm willing to look it up. Just seems that sex attacks happen all the time and they're rarely reported as a trans woman attacking a woman.

DefineHappy · 04/05/2025 07:21

Do you indulge the beliefs of people with anorexia? When they are adamant and truly believe they are fat? When they have delusions about their body and weight such that they refuse food and can ultimately die?

People with delusions actually believe their disordered thinking. It is very real to them, it is their truth. We as a society, as medical and scientific experts, as professionals, as loving and caring families - we don’t indulge their delusions, we don’t actively participate in their delusions, and we attempt to ensure their health, safety and lives are not compromised, destroyed or ended due to their delusions.

At least, some of us do - other feel that “being kind” is the correct path…

mrshoho · 04/05/2025 07:22

Thank you JKR for this superb piece of writing. Nailing it on every single point and conveying the thoughts of millions of people.

In my lifetime there have probably been only a handful of individual people with such influence who have truly used their status and position in such a selfless way. Thank you JKR for paving the way in an industry that had frankly lost all sense of reality.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 07:23

It's been interesting since the SC judgement ro watch the fallout on social media.

One thing that's cropped you is how JKR is often used as shorthand.

Women use her name to obliquely signal their feminism.

Gender activists use her name to paint a picture of evil, nasty witches and project all their misogyny onto.

She's become totemic, possibly to both 'sides'. Which must be a very odd experience. Given that she's still a very sane and sensible human being.

I find it very impressive how she remains so level headed. Hope you've got lots of time for barefoot in the garden grounding, JKR.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:28

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 07:06

Well no, no I don’t. Please do explain. Surely thinking there is only one way to live as a woman or a man is very sexist? Every woman will live their lives differently so how would a man know what it is to live as a woman? He could only live as his idea of what a woman thinks feels and acts, and that is extremely sexist no? To base womanhood on how a man sees it?

I'm not going to explain, because I believe you are aware of the differences in the ways men and women live their lives. I'm not going to write an essay teaching you the obvious.

EweSurname · 04/05/2025 07:31

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:18

But I wanted to come back to you on this point: you said it wasn’t fair on harmless trans people for them to be lumped in with others.
Can I ask: do you apply the same logic to men? Because the same applies. We know there are many, many lovely men but we keep them all out because a small minority are violent and rapey.

We don't always keep them out. Back in 1990 a new pool was built in my town and the changing rooms are mixed - I was always a bit shocked about that! Just one set of changing rooms. Mixed changing rooms and unisex loos - usually single ones, admittedly - have become more common. I think some shops have mixed changing rooms too - although not communal ones, obviously. Anyway, since we can't tell who's harmless and who isn't, I do agree that third spaces are the way. You said that some TW get angry about that - well, they should accept the compromise. Why would they want to upset people? If I was trans, and I was aware that some women felt uncomfortable because of me (whether I'd had surgery or not) I'd gladly use a third space.

I don't agree that trans women will be safe in male loos, if they've transitioned to the extent that they can't switch back to a male look. They're very likely to get beaten up.

I can't speak to your points about TW being attracted to women as I don't have stats about that or about who's more likely to attack who.

I'd like to independently verify the info in the graph you posted, because when I read about sexual attacks in the papers, I don't ever remember the report saying that the perp was trans. So I'd be surprised if the data is accurate, but I'm willing to look it up. Just seems that sex attacks happen all the time and they're rarely reported as a trans woman attacking a woman.

That’s nice (not meant sarkily, I promise!) that you would be happy to consider other people’s perspectives and use third spaces if you thought it would stop women feeling uncomfortable.

The problem is a lot of the trans community don’t feel that way, as validation from being in women’s spaces is the point. How women feel about this is immaterial to them.

Heres a Reddit thread from only 9 days ago:

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/s/ugusqgyd3m

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 04/05/2025 07:31

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 06:59

I knew that would come up. The obfuscating as to what it means to live as the opposite sex. The pointing out that there's no such thing as a masculine or feminine presentation. It's part of the same rebuttal by the JK side that refuses to believe any TW can pass and that they can always tell.

I believe you know what it means to live as a woman and to live as a man.

I can truthfully say I don't, except to say that male bodies and female bodies are different and their different forms and functions must affect day to day life. They certainly do for women and girls, coping with menstruation, sexual harassment, pregnancy, after effects of childbirth, breastfeeding, menopause and so on. Outside biology, I can't see what all women are supposed to have in common.

Everlore · 04/05/2025 07:31

What a wonderful inspirational woman she is, so brave and eloquent. The Harry Potter books have brought me so much joy an comfort over the years, even as an adult and her Strike novels are brilliant. Her skill as an author would have been enough to make her a heroine of mine, but her willingness to use her platform to fight for women's and girls' rights despite the appalling levels of vitriole and threats she has received somehow elevates her even further in my estimation. Thanks again JKR.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:33

DefineHappy · 04/05/2025 07:21

Do you indulge the beliefs of people with anorexia? When they are adamant and truly believe they are fat? When they have delusions about their body and weight such that they refuse food and can ultimately die?

People with delusions actually believe their disordered thinking. It is very real to them, it is their truth. We as a society, as medical and scientific experts, as professionals, as loving and caring families - we don’t indulge their delusions, we don’t actively participate in their delusions, and we attempt to ensure their health, safety and lives are not compromised, destroyed or ended due to their delusions.

At least, some of us do - other feel that “being kind” is the correct path…

Anorexia is a disease, and it's thought to have a strong genetic component. I don't think being trans is a disease.

I don't think that trans people are delusional. I don't think they think they ARE the opposite sex, biologically - that would be a delusion. If they were under a delusion that they actually were the opposite sex, then they'd be perfectly happy, wouldn't they! No, they know what biological sex they are, and they want to be the other one. The very fact that they try to change in order to be as like the opposite sex as possible proves that they are NOT under a delusion that they are that sex already.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 07:37

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 04/05/2025 07:31

I can truthfully say I don't, except to say that male bodies and female bodies are different and their different forms and functions must affect day to day life. They certainly do for women and girls, coping with menstruation, sexual harassment, pregnancy, after effects of childbirth, breastfeeding, menopause and so on. Outside biology, I can't see what all women are supposed to have in common.

miss piggy film GIF

Hair, makeup and frocks, innit.

DialSquare · 04/05/2025 07:38

As others have said, every time you think you can’t admire her more, she comes up with something like this. There isn’t a TA out there that could come up with any sort of meaningful response to this and they know it. That’s why they hate her so much.

DefineHappy · 04/05/2025 07:39

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 07:18

But I wanted to come back to you on this point: you said it wasn’t fair on harmless trans people for them to be lumped in with others.
Can I ask: do you apply the same logic to men? Because the same applies. We know there are many, many lovely men but we keep them all out because a small minority are violent and rapey.

We don't always keep them out. Back in 1990 a new pool was built in my town and the changing rooms are mixed - I was always a bit shocked about that! Just one set of changing rooms. Mixed changing rooms and unisex loos - usually single ones, admittedly - have become more common. I think some shops have mixed changing rooms too - although not communal ones, obviously. Anyway, since we can't tell who's harmless and who isn't, I do agree that third spaces are the way. You said that some TW get angry about that - well, they should accept the compromise. Why would they want to upset people? If I was trans, and I was aware that some women felt uncomfortable because of me (whether I'd had surgery or not) I'd gladly use a third space.

I don't agree that trans women will be safe in male loos, if they've transitioned to the extent that they can't switch back to a male look. They're very likely to get beaten up.

I can't speak to your points about TW being attracted to women as I don't have stats about that or about who's more likely to attack who.

I'd like to independently verify the info in the graph you posted, because when I read about sexual attacks in the papers, I don't ever remember the report saying that the perp was trans. So I'd be surprised if the data is accurate, but I'm willing to look it up. Just seems that sex attacks happen all the time and they're rarely reported as a trans woman attacking a woman.

Just on your final point:
Those reports you have read, and them not mentioning transgender perpetrators?
The media has been forced (although some have willingly complied) to report transwomen as women, just as women who have been raped have been forced in court to address their attacker as “she” or “her”.
Isla Bryson was referred to in news reporting as she/her with no mention of being transgender. It was only the photographic evidence that displayed the pink leggings that revealed male genitalia that gave any clue about transgender identity or being a transwoman.
If the media is not allowed to call a transwoman (biological male) a transwoman or a trans-identified male, then how would anyone know if the perpetrator is a woman, a transwoman or a cross dressing male?

Also, the police and courts have been instrumental in blurring and compromising statistics and reporting of crimes by transgender people (mainly transwomen (biological males)), as they have insisted on classifying any self-identified male as a woman or female (so TW are recorded as female by police, prosecuted as women, sentenced as women and incarcerated as women - when they are not).

TheaBrandt1 · 04/05/2025 07:39

They are definitely analogous. Anorexia isn’t genetic. Dd has it - came out of nowhere no one in either mine or Dh families have ever had it or anything like it.

Datun · 04/05/2025 07:40

StuckUpPrincess

What you are advocating for, post op transwomen only, is a stance taken by many women. On the surface there's a certain logic to it. It feels as though such an extreme form of surgery puts them in a different camp to other men.

But can I just ask you to look at it from more than just the one angle?

Firstly, the statistics. Post op transwomen do not conform to female pattern violence. In the now famous Swedish study, they conformed to male pattern violence. Therefore in terms of statistical risk, there's no difference. Indeed, there have been post op trans women who have raped, tortured and killed.

Secondly, from a practical point of view, there's absolutely no way of making the distinction. You can't tell if a man has had surgery or not. Plus you can't give men who have had surgery more rights than men who haven't. It's immoral to incite people to life changing surgery.

But lastly, and most importantly, can I ask you to just focus on the women for one minute. It's rather depressing, here, on the feminist board, how many people simply can't drag their eyes off the men in question, to focus on the women whose actual spaces they are, and whose rights are under threat

Firstly many women are entirely unable to share an intimate space with men. Sexual trauma, religious reasons., etc. They would automatically be excluded from their own space. And for many other women, it's bloody uncomfortable. Women with PCOS, pregnant women, women who are throwing up due to morning sickness, women with menstrual mishaps that require rinsing their clothes, tops covered in leaking milk. Women's biology is vastly more complicated, and their spaces accommodate this. It's absolutely not just a place to pee. When I'm throwing up due to morning sickness and feeling like shit, it's bad enough being amongst other women, but I really don't want a post op man dilating in the cubicle next to me. It's not just safety, it's privacy and dignity.

And lastly, consider why these specific men want to use women's spaces, why they are not and never have advocated for a third, unisex space. It's because the presence of the women in those spaces is the crucial part. It's the women who make the space female only. The women are the goal, not the space. Without the women and girls presence the space would be irrelevant.

in your scenario, you agree that many men should not be able to utilise women in this way, that women are not their resource, but for some men, yes they are.

We're not. Women are real human beings, with our own needs and wants. We don't exist to fulfil the requirements of men, even those men that you think have earned the right to use us.

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