How to talk to 5yo DS about non-binary / trans teacher

[NorthernLoon]

DS is in reception. We received a message from the school recently advising that one of his teachers was leaving, and welcoming that teacher's replacement. The new teacher's title is "Mx" which Google tells me is a non-gendered title. So far so good.
Today DS met the new teacher for the first time and has come home saying the teacher "looks a bit like a woman, but not really, and has a man's voice". He didn't ask any specific questions about that, so I didn't offer any explanation. (And I'm aware I might be jumping to the wrong conclusion - could just be a slightly masculine looking woman with a 40-a-day habit for all I know!)
But assuming the teacher is a TW, how do I talk about that with a 5yo?! I don't want him to get in trouble at school. But I'm not happy to teach him a belief system i don't agree with.
He knows basic male/female anatomy, the correct names for private parts, and that he is a boy because he has a male body. He's gone through various sparkly/pink phases, and my sister is a fairly tomboyish PE teacher. So we've talked in very basic terms about social stereotypes around "gender" and how they don't really mean anything.
But where do I go from here? He's a gentle little boy - he would never want to hurt anyone, and he hates getting told off. But he would absolutely go into school and say "My mum says Mx ... is really a man". And my personal beliefs aside, I don't think that's helpful for anyone.

I would go into school and find out what the situation actually is. It might just be a manly woman?
If it is a man identifying as a woman ask the school what they recommend you say, 5yr olds cannot negotiate this diplomatic minefield. The cognitive dissonance is a lot. But on the other hand 5yr olds are also open to accepting gender non-conforming men, I would frame it as they have the body of a man but they like to wear a dress (or whatever they wear). Lots of little boys like wearing Elsa dresses and that’s fine.

How about this.

Everyone is male or female, but sometimes we can't tell.

I would pop into school and ask at the office. Say your ds isn't sure if his teacher is male or female and you couldn't tell him because the title is ambiguous and you haven't met the teacher yourself.

If the member of staff doesn't give enough clarity, push politely eg if they say the teacher is a woman or non binary, ask whether it's someone born female or someone born male but now identifying as a woman or nb.

If the teacher is male, you can tell your son that the teacher is a man but some men like to wear dresses and make up. That's fine because we can all dress however we want but it's a bit confusing if you haven't seen a man dress like that before.

DD1 (19) has LD and asked why a friend of DD2 now has a male name. I just said 'some people feel happier when they call themselves something different. So we can call them the name they prefer."

If you take that line, you can avoid the male/female thing altogether and just say 'this is the name we use.'

Children do innately know, though. DD1 had a taxi driver when she was young, who wore bright pink, had boobs, long hair, female name, makeup. DD1 would always stumble over he/she if she was talking about them. Her brain just knew and she was having to consciously override it.

That’s ridiculous We can always really tell. That’s getting into dangerous territory telling a young child not to trust his own eyes, ears and instincts.

OP perhaps contact Safe Schools Alliance or look on their website for advice.

I wouldn’t have that person teaching and educating my child.

I'd move if I could but I understand it's probably not a realistic prospect.

But he would absolutely go into school and say "My mum says Mx ... is really a man".

Let him

Make it clear you refuse to lie as is your right, that if your child is corrected you will take it up with the school and that you expect him not to be singled out by teachers for having different beliefs.

You respect the person but you will not tell a 5 year old lies about sex for safeguarding reasons.

Then make sure all their policies are in line with the equality act using sex and having gone through / are in the process of gender reassignment (note non binary does not have legal status as it is not reassigning to the other sex, it is trying to be neither) and do not use gender identity which is a weasel phrase which is incorrect.

They pretty much can't do shit at this point, without you having massive recourse to tell them to fuck off if you need to.

Oh lord, find out first!! Lots of women look masculine or have deep voices. I think you're rather jumping to conclusions!

I'd go with being child-led. They ask questions, give them answers. Say as much as necessary to answer the questions, as little as possible to give them space to be curious and come up with their own next questions.

It'd be very weird to discuss or speculate about an adult's private parts with a child.

Starting off with basic respect, we call people by the names and titles they prefer.

You nailed it. I’d be removing my child. This is unacceptable.

Yes, do do this, because the staff at reception will be only to happy to discuss any and all information about staff members and their sexuality/gender identity/ marital status/ dress preferences with random parents. It’s what they are there for after all, and don’t worry, the discussion will be totally confidential and they will not speak to other members of staff or the SMT about little x’s weird parent.

Difficult one op. I wouldn’t want the dc to have to lie to validate an adult.

But check what the situation is first.

You seem to be assuming an awful lot. If you think the school is ok and well run , why wouldn't you think they know how to manage situations like this professionally or that the teacher wouldn't know what to say in response to innocent questions.

So how do you propose finding out the sex of a teacher who is using a pronoun usually adopted by gender ideologists?

If the teacher is a man pretending to be a woman and the children are supposed to believe that he's a woman then he is using young children to validate his mental illness/fetish. I would also worry about gender ideology being pushed at the school

If the teacher is a man asking children to pretend that he's a woman, then he's also telling them to ignore their instincts as even very young children can correctly sex people. Encouraging children to ignore their instincts is a safeguarding red flag.

Wanting to find out what's happening isn't being a weird parent, it's being a concerned, responsible one.

I agree, find out for sure first. Or just watch and wait and see if your child says anything else, or if any other children or parents make comments.

I don’t know why you have to say anything at all.

i went to look at secondary schools for my daughter and there was a Mx. I think female at birth but quite masculine looking; short hair and dungarees etc. Had a pride flag on the wall. I’m sure there were genuinely confused teenagers at that school, who found comfort in Mx science teacher.

As long as the teacher just does their job, what’s the problem? Five year olds are way more tolerant than adults.

How does a child in reception have a form teacher? I thought that would be for secondary only. And only seeing this new teacher once or twice a week.

It’s quite normal for teachers to job share. My DS had 2 teachers in one year at primary. Also some may have other responsibilities which means they have to be covered. It depends how the school allocates staff.

You are aware sex affects many many more body parts than just genitals?

First answer nails it

Well the parents could go and see for themselves ,speak to the teacher and form an opinion. which I think is a pretty sensible starting point. Or they could set up a WhatsApp page and try to rally other parents into a lynch mob . Which is not a sensible starting point

Maybe form teacher isn't the right word. It's a 2-form entry school, so there are two reception teachers, one of whom is responsible for DS's class. That teacher calls the register in the morning, teaches him phonics, maths, doss his parents evening etc. There are a couple of subjects that are taught by other teachers - Mx Smith is one of these.

This seems a good suggestion.

I think you need to find out if this teacher is gaslighting children or not.

If they are concealing their sex and not allowing children to refer to them as a man or a woman (and use the respective pronouns) then that is an indication of a school that does not put the safety and wellbeing of their pupils first.

Children are not there to validate an adult’s made up identity.

Sorry I haven't come back to the thread much; been a busy day. Thank you for all the advice.
To clarify, I was never going to go in all guns blazing without knowing what the actual situation was with this teacher, and I will definitely establish the facts before I say anything concrete to DS.
My concern was more about how I answer any potential questions when I don't know the facts, and how to balance my own views against the risk of DS receiving prejudicial treatment in school. I've received some great advice in that regard so thank you.
There have also been some good suggestions here as to how I can raise it with the school and ask for clarification, so, again, thank you. Also some scenarios I hadn't considered - my mind went straight to TW, autogynephilia etc, when the person may just be a gender non-conforming man/woman. It's been helpful for me to reflect on why I'm comfortable with the latter when I'm so uncomfortable with the former. (And that reflecting hasn't changed my position but it was helpful in clarifying it.)

Apologies I can't respond to each comment in the thread but I'm grateful that you've taken the time to read and reply :)

100% this.