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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Thank You from a Trans Lurker

560 replies

Seethlaw · 01/05/2025 16:42

I want to thank you all wonderful people for fighting the good fight despite everything that's been thrown at you. I was an intermittent lurker for years before your arguments finally made it through my barriers. I'm in awe of your courage and tenacity and impossible patience!

I'm a trans man from another European country. I used to be extremely baffled by you GC people. I couldn't help but wonder what on Earth possessed you to go after trans people. I couldn't understand how anyone could think that trans people, that minuscule minority, was any kind of threat to anyone. I was devastated when I learned that one of my favourite authors (not JKR) had "gone TERF".

Again and again, I went back to what I thought were the basics: there is nothing wrong with being trans, and we just want to live our lives in peace.

But stuff happened over the years, some in real life and some on MN where I would lurk once in a while. Coincidentally, it was on the day of the UKSC ruling that I found myself here again, and I was absolutely horrified, and I finally accepted the unacceptable: it was never the TERFs going after the trans. It was the trans going after women's places and even the very definition of the word "woman".

Since then, I've watched the fallout of the SC decision. And my stomach has been sinking as trans person after trans person has come here, trotted out the same old, long-debunked arguments, and hurled abuse and disrespect in the name of "Me, me, me!" And the thing is, I can't even fool myself that they are not "real" trans people.

Back when I transitioned, more than a decade ago, in my country, I searched for trans support groups, and I encountered that very phenomenon of trans people (mostly trans women, though by no means all of them) demanding that the world twist around them. I told myself then that they were not representative of trans people, but the thing is: they are the loudest ones, and the most demanding ones - and as such, the most visible ones. I don't know yet what I can or will do about that, but at least now I'm aware that when people talk about trans people, they might be thinking of such individuals.

Thank you to anyone who read that far, and thank you again for everything you've done. You people rock 👍 !!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Shortshriftandlethal · 05/05/2025 10:48

BBC, actually...no surprises, I guess.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xh73

VanishingVision · 05/05/2025 10:49

Shortshriftandlethal · 05/05/2025 10:44

On the subject of France ...there was an interesting documentary on Channel 4? a few years ago ' La Petite Fille' about a young french boy who was identifying as a girl, and positively encouraged/supported in this by his mother; less so his father.This child had developed this 'girl' identity at a very young age...maybe 3 or 4.

I was amazed that the mother did not have a moment of realisation or awareness when she talked of how much she had longed for a daughter whilst pregnant with him, and how disappointed she had been when he was born. It was a real devastation for her.

Obviously children live in the psychic atmosphere created by their parents, and whilst it may not have been an obvious trauma....being subliminally aware that whenever his mother looked upon him, she imagined seeing a girl might well have created some sort of alienation from his male self/body.

Edited

This is the sort of stuff that really gets me. In a situation like that you KNOW who made that decision.... there is no way in hell a 3/4 year old could POSSIBLY understand anything about trans.

I'm interested in how the father may have challenged her on that realisation??

Shortshriftandlethal · 05/05/2025 10:51

VanishingVision · 05/05/2025 10:49

This is the sort of stuff that really gets me. In a situation like that you KNOW who made that decision.... there is no way in hell a 3/4 year old could POSSIBLY understand anything about trans.

I'm interested in how the father may have challenged her on that realisation??

He came across as a slighltly distant ,observational figure who did not want to impinge too heavily on his wife and son's fixation.

Seethlaw · 05/05/2025 10:52

Shortshriftandlethal · 05/05/2025 10:44

On the subject of France ...there was an interesting documentary on Channel 4? a few years ago ' La Petite Fille' about a young french boy who was identifying as a girl, and positively encouraged/supported in this by his mother; less so his father.This child had developed this 'girl' identity at a very young age...maybe 3 or 4.

I was amazed that the mother did not have a moment of realisation or awareness when she talked of how much she had longed for a daughter whilst pregnant with him, and how disappointed she had been when he was born. It was a real devastation for her.

Obviously children live in the psychic atmosphere created by their parents, and whilst it may not have been an obvious trauma....being subliminally aware that whenever his mother looked upon him, she imagined seeing a girl might well have created some sort of alienation from his male self/body.

Edited

That's actually one hypothesis I entertain for myself: that my mother was convinced I was a boy throughout her pregnancy because that's what she needed me to be, that she was very cross when I turned out to be a girl, and that I subconsciously picked up on it.

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 05/05/2025 10:52

The film documents the battle with the child's school, who were not happy at all about socially transitioning him.

Seethlaw · 05/05/2025 10:53

VanishingVision · 05/05/2025 10:49

This is the sort of stuff that really gets me. In a situation like that you KNOW who made that decision.... there is no way in hell a 3/4 year old could POSSIBLY understand anything about trans.

I'm interested in how the father may have challenged her on that realisation??

Heh, I don't know? If it was so obvious to me at age six, then why not 3/4 for some others?

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 05/05/2025 10:56

Seethlaw · 05/05/2025 10:52

That's actually one hypothesis I entertain for myself: that my mother was convinced I was a boy throughout her pregnancy because that's what she needed me to be, that she was very cross when I turned out to be a girl, and that I subconsciously picked up on it.

I actually think that when that does happen in a pregnancy ( a strong desire for/or imagining of a child of a particular sex) it does carry psychic impact. It might not ncessarily translate into a trans identity - but it could well shape the inner 'soul' of the child, and it could well subliminally effect the way the parent/mother/father relates to and handles the child; thus shaping the child's feeling about themselves in the world.

VanishingVision · 05/05/2025 10:56

Seethlaw · 05/05/2025 10:53

Heh, I don't know? If it was so obvious to me at age six, then why not 3/4 for some others?

I was referring more to the actual act of transitioning, not necessarily the wanting of being the 'other side' or that your body is the 'wrong' one, sorry i should have made that clearer.

TroubledWatersTW · 05/05/2025 10:59

Seethlaw · 05/05/2025 10:53

Heh, I don't know? If it was so obvious to me at age six, then why not 3/4 for some others?

3/4 does feel a bit young to me, but who knows?

As my mother would confirm, aged six I (half-heartedly!) attempted to castrate myself, so I definitely think gender dysphoria can start quite young! I don't think transition at that age would be appropriate treatment, moreso therapy!

Shortshriftandlethal · 05/05/2025 11:02

There is definitely the phenomenon of some fathers really longing for a boy - and when they get a girl instead - they either express disappointment ( rejection or dismissal) or else they engage with the girl in ways they would have done with a boy. And the mothers who long for a girl because what they really want is a confidante and a best friend; and/or a doll they can dress up and pet and bind to themselves.

VanishingVision · 05/05/2025 11:04

TroubledWatersTW · 05/05/2025 10:59

3/4 does feel a bit young to me, but who knows?

As my mother would confirm, aged six I (half-heartedly!) attempted to castrate myself, so I definitely think gender dysphoria can start quite young! I don't think transition at that age would be appropriate treatment, moreso therapy!

My dysphoria was also prevalent very early on, looking back. But I don't think anyone so young can contemplate what is actually required to transition and it's implications and effects across all aspects of your life.

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 11:10

TroubledWatersTW · 05/05/2025 10:09

I don't know how anyone keeps up with posting on FWR threads, I feel there are so many new posts I'd want to reply to! Apologies for not responding more individually. I'm heartened to see some posters appreciate hearing our thoughts 😊

A couple of posts mention safeguarding and I wholeheartedly agree. There is a reason I lurk (and now post!) here and not in a TRA forum. The facts are that a study showed TWs retain male patterns of criminality. As a TW, that's was very uncomfortable reading for me, but it is the truth, and the truth matters. For me, that totally justifies treating TWs the same as other males when it comes to crime and safeguarding.

To my knowledge, perhaps people here know more, there hasn't been a study showing TWs are any worse than other males in terms of crime. If there were, I'd also accept that as true, and that would justify greater restrictions on TWs, however unfortunate that would be for me personally. It's not about me, it's about a safe society. Without such a study, I hope treating TWs identically to other males is sufficient, and I'm certainly okay with that.

@woollyhatter
"I guess I am asking can you recognise their experience or was your experience more a drip drip of something really doesn’t feel right with me."

I guess I'll chip in too on this; I think you're absolutely right about some trans people being very traumatised. Screaming for validation is not the action of someone who is secure in their identity.

It's not my experience at all though, one of the things I often discuss with my (GC) family members, who now all fully accept I have had dysphoria since young childhood, is that none of us can find an obvious "cause". I wasn't abused, I was in a loving household, I had plenty of support. I don't associate my feelings with any traumatic memory. We none of us can come up with any explanation why it manifested, it just did. It started long before I learned of trans people, or anything of the sort. I really have, for whatever reason, always from a young age been uncomfortable with the male aspects of my body. I'd love to know why!

It's interesting I see @Seethlaw has posted similarly. I wonder if there is a correlation between "nuanced" trans people and certain kinds of dysphoria. We both seem to be describing some similar experiences 🤔

WRT offending rates of TW and other men -

Stats can be hard to come by for a couple of reasons:

  1. small numbers of TW relative to populace, so small changes can distort figures
  2. recording of data - police in many UK forces are/were recording TW as 'female', as were courts, afaik. That makes data very hard to analyse as TW will show as part of the 'female' populace. It will mean we can't assess TW risk rates accurately, but it also means that female crime stats, which are ENORMOUSLY smaller than that of males, are very quickly skewed. By which I mean - 99% of males commit all sex crimes. It won't take many males 'identifying as' and being recorded as female to have a large impact on the 1% of females who commit sex crimes.

So, those are the caveats. That said:

The Swedish study showed no change or difference in the rates post transition.

Among the prison population, TW are disproportionately represented among sex offenders. At least 60% of TW in prison are sex offenders, which is very much higher than the proportion of other males who are in prison.

I'll see if I can find links to the stats/articles.

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 11:11

'Of the 125 transgender prisoners counted by the prison service in 2017, 60 had been convicted of sexual offenses, including 27 convicted of rape (BBC News 2018). In the overall prison population, by comparison, 19% of males had been convicted of sexual crimes and only 4% of females (Ministry of Justice 2018b). '

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/default/

VanishingVision · 05/05/2025 11:24

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 11:11

'Of the 125 transgender prisoners counted by the prison service in 2017, 60 had been convicted of sexual offenses, including 27 convicted of rape (BBC News 2018). In the overall prison population, by comparison, 19% of males had been convicted of sexual crimes and only 4% of females (Ministry of Justice 2018b). '

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/default/

Are you aware of any such study that potentially breaks down the stats of whether the TW imprisoned for sex crimes 'identified as women' before or after incarceration? Ive had a look myself but haven't had much luck.

I ask because I know of somebody who works as a hospital manager in an institution for violent and mentally ill criminals and he says that many of the offenders of sex crimes saw 'identifying as a trans woman' as a way to try and get into the female populace (his words 'they might be mental but they're not stupid').

The prison situation has likely been one of my main reasons for always being against self-ID being introduced and I've always wondered how this has likely affected those numbers.

Shortshriftandlethal · 05/05/2025 11:30

A detailed review of 'Petite Fille' I've just come across:

"This French documentary called Petite Fille (Little Girl) carries was screened on BBC4 as part of the Storyville documentary series, available on BBC iplayer at the time of writing. The child subject of the film is an 8 year old boy called Sasha. However it is his overbearing mother who has the starring role. She has three other children and a husband.

The first thing of concern about the documentary is in the very first scene when we realise that Sasha is alone with the film crew in his bedroom. We hear laughter in the background from elsewhere in the house from his family. Predictably Sasha is dressing up in girly clothes and doing his hair. Notably this happens again at the end of the documentary, where Sasha is on his bed, hitting the bedframe in a bored manner. The camera leers over all his dolls, as if it were proof of his femaleness, and then Sasha appears to hold back a cry, controls himself and then begins to show the unseen adult(s) photos of himself aged 4 or 5 – from a time before his parents had ‘socially transitioned’ him. He looks to be a normal boy.

In the first major scene, mum goes to visit, what appears to be a psychologist, where she gets straight to the rub of the matter. Sasha told her when he was two years old that he was a girl. Sasha ‘detests his pee pee’ and is sad that he won’t be able to grow a baby in his tummy. The man asks her about her pregnancy and she admits that yes, she desperately wanted a girl. We later learn that she has had miscarriages in the past with female babies, despite that she has a teenage daughter. None of this is probed further despite its obvious relevance.

Mum also tells this first psychologist that the school has told her that they believe it is her who is pushing Sasha into the role of a girl, not Sasha himself.

He tells her that he doesn’t have the necessary specialism to deal with the case and that she needs to visit a gender doctor. The narrative arc of the documentary is built around the question of whether Sasha will be able to start the new school year as a girl, or not. For this to happen the mother needs a certificate from the gender doctor and the agreement of the school.

The family are presented as completely functional – scenes of them playing snowballs in the garden with each other, jokes around the dinner table. The father makes a fairly late appearance, but again he is totally supportive and presented as rational. When we see film of Sasha as a baby, the footage looks faded, as if it were filmed on real film rather than digitally, and it made me wonder whether this effect was added to create a feeling of nostalgia. Haunting music plays when the mum wonders whether it’s all her fault. It is emotive and persuasive.

As one would expect, the mother is all over Sasha. In particular, we see repeated scenes in which she dresses him. An 8 year old boy who has complete co-ordination of his limbs and attends ballet class, is physically dressed by his mother and the camera captures it several times. Mum tells us that Sasha has never had any friends home because of the situation he is currently in – he dresses like a girl at home, but can only dress like a boy at school. It’s the fault of the school because they are going by what is on his birth certificate.

Interestingly when Sasha tells her that he has a friend call Theo, the mother quickly changes the subject to Lola, the little girl that she wants him to be friends with.

A visit to the gender doctor in Paris completes Act 1 of the drama. The doctor literally wears a white coat. The consultation is filmed and Sasha is encouraged by mum to say that he doesn’t like his teachers, but finally mum admits that it’s her who doesn’t like Sasha’s teachers. An admission which is frankly irresponsible for the director to include (though to be honest, the whole project is unethical). When Sasha is asked by the doctor to remember a time that he was bullied he has nothing to report. Mum prompts him to remember being pushed, she reminds him twice and when he agrees something had happened she reflexively touches herself in relief. She also says that he was picked on in the toilet, but Sasha says nothing to corroborate this.

She asks this psychologist whether she is responsible for Sasha’s predicament and the doctor says that parents’ behaviour is never a factor in gender dysphoria and can absolutely be ruled out. Sasha becomes tearful. Mum wants a letter to prove to the school that she isn’t crazy. A letter recommending ‘social transition’ with pronoun changes is immediately dispensed by the gender doctor.

In the fading light of a summer’s evening, the parents discuss their upcoming meeting with an endocrinologist to discuss halting Sasha’s puberty. The kids are playing in the garden close by and we hear their laughter and bird song.
Mum assures Dad that the process is completely reversible. What about normal growth? Dad wonders. The doctors know what they’re talking about, she says (making it clear that the talk with the endocrinologist has already happened). Of course they do, says the dad, backing down. Mum says that if Sasha only wants to live as a girl for ten years, then it will be absolutely fine to change his mind.

Scenes in which mum tries to ring the school to speak to the headteacher are dramatically flat. It appears she gets the voicemail every time. We have several scenes in the film which are characterised by her alone in her fight against the unseen school and its teachers, tottering off down the road toward the school, or in the car with a singular look on her face. It seems likely that the school all along refused to discuss the issue until a proper psychological assessment had taken place, so the to-ing and fro-ing are likely added for dramatic effect.

This time it is a family visit, including dad and Sasha’s older brother. The doctor asks Sasha how he explains things to his friends, then she asks the same question to his brother. Then she addresses the parents directly and tells them that they need to think about whether Sasha’s fertility should be preserved or not and that hormones will cause his sperm to be non-functioning.
This is closely followed by the mum, in a separate scene, reflecting that Sasha is likely to face a lot of physical threat and violence in his life and that she will be there to protect him always – it will be the battle of both our lives, is how she phrases it. Later she makes up, what appears to be, formula milk for him to drink from nursing bottle.

After a few more scenes in which the parents metaphorically pull their hair out over the ‘idiots’ at the school, Sasha is told on camera that they have finally achieved a result for him and he will be allowed to be a ‘girl’ at school and wear what he wants and have female pronouns. Sasha looks sad. Cue yet another scene of him being literally dressed by mum, but this time his long hair is in a pony tail.

Then it’s winter. We are treated to a train journey looking out over snow covered fields, a nod to the circle of life. It’s the final visit to the woman in the white coat. The gender doctor. The mother tells an unlikely story of his ballet teacher rejecting him in class publicly, in front of the other kids and their parents and describes that the teacher literally pushed him out of the room and closed the door on him, with the last thing him seeing was the little smile on the teacher’s face. She completes the story by turning to Sasha and saying that she is so sorry that she has let him down. ‘What more could mummy have done?’ the doctor asks Sasha accusingly. Sasha says nothing.

Predictably enough the final scene is Sasha ballet dancing in the garden wearing a pair of butterfly wings..I looked at a few reviews for this documentary and none appear to see the obvious problems in the family dynamic: an overbearing mother with a repeated stated desire to have had another daughter, and a weak father, who alters his opinion every time his wife nudges him. None of the reviewers appear to be concerned that an 8 year old boy is being prepared for infertility"

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 05/05/2025 11:32

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 11:10

WRT offending rates of TW and other men -

Stats can be hard to come by for a couple of reasons:

  1. small numbers of TW relative to populace, so small changes can distort figures
  2. recording of data - police in many UK forces are/were recording TW as 'female', as were courts, afaik. That makes data very hard to analyse as TW will show as part of the 'female' populace. It will mean we can't assess TW risk rates accurately, but it also means that female crime stats, which are ENORMOUSLY smaller than that of males, are very quickly skewed. By which I mean - 99% of males commit all sex crimes. It won't take many males 'identifying as' and being recorded as female to have a large impact on the 1% of females who commit sex crimes.

So, those are the caveats. That said:

The Swedish study showed no change or difference in the rates post transition.

Among the prison population, TW are disproportionately represented among sex offenders. At least 60% of TW in prison are sex offenders, which is very much higher than the proportion of other males who are in prison.

I'll see if I can find links to the stats/articles.

99% of males commit all sex crimes

This isn't expressed as intended is it? I think you mean 99% of sex crimes are committed by males (I'm not certain of the precise figure, but it's definitely very clear that the vast majority are male crimes). I'm fairly sure that most males do not commit a sex crime at any time in their life, and certainly not one that is recorded as such.

TroubledWatersTW · 05/05/2025 11:59

VanishingVision · 05/05/2025 11:24

Are you aware of any such study that potentially breaks down the stats of whether the TW imprisoned for sex crimes 'identified as women' before or after incarceration? Ive had a look myself but haven't had much luck.

I ask because I know of somebody who works as a hospital manager in an institution for violent and mentally ill criminals and he says that many of the offenders of sex crimes saw 'identifying as a trans woman' as a way to try and get into the female populace (his words 'they might be mental but they're not stupid').

The prison situation has likely been one of my main reasons for always being against self-ID being introduced and I've always wondered how this has likely affected those numbers.

I like to call it Prison-Onset Gender Dysphoria (POGD) 😆
(actually I just searched and other people are calling it that too!)

Certainly from my individual perspective I struggle to contemplate having sexual relations with my male genitalia at all, much less raping someone. It does seem to be a very different problem, if it is even the same thing. As ever though, we have no easy way of distinguishing between the harmless and the harmful in society so we all end up being treated alike.

I suppose specifically for those who transition in prison, they're not quite the same threat per se because they weren't walking around as TWs when committing the crime. Hence, their victims would not have seen them as TWs at all. The statistic we need would be how many people are transitioned and presenting as TWs when committing a crime, since that's the group indistinguishable from harmless TWs day-to-day.

I guess the other slight subtlety is that sexual assault by deception is a sex crime that can only be committed by trans people, so ideally that would also be controlled for and accounted slightly differently (not trying to diminish it, it is a crime). Statistics are a pain!

Seethlaw · 05/05/2025 12:04

VanishingVision · 05/05/2025 10:56

I was referring more to the actual act of transitioning, not necessarily the wanting of being the 'other side' or that your body is the 'wrong' one, sorry i should have made that clearer.

Edited

Oh, then I agree! Transitioning is not something you do to anyone, let alone a child that young.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 12:11

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 05/05/2025 11:32

99% of males commit all sex crimes

This isn't expressed as intended is it? I think you mean 99% of sex crimes are committed by males (I'm not certain of the precise figure, but it's definitely very clear that the vast majority are male crimes). I'm fairly sure that most males do not commit a sex crime at any time in their life, and certainly not one that is recorded as such.

Jesus, yes, sorry! I was in.a rush!

Seethlaw · 05/05/2025 12:18

@Shortshriftandlethal

That review is nothing short of horrifying D: !! This poor kid is so clearly being manipulated by his mother 😢And the ones who should be protecting him from her (his father, the doctors) are so horribly failing him instead. Whether or not he's actually trans doesn't even matter much at this point: what he needs more than anything is to be allowed to be free of her control.

OP posts:
VanishingVision · 05/05/2025 12:20

TroubledWatersTW · 05/05/2025 11:59

I like to call it Prison-Onset Gender Dysphoria (POGD) 😆
(actually I just searched and other people are calling it that too!)

Certainly from my individual perspective I struggle to contemplate having sexual relations with my male genitalia at all, much less raping someone. It does seem to be a very different problem, if it is even the same thing. As ever though, we have no easy way of distinguishing between the harmless and the harmful in society so we all end up being treated alike.

I suppose specifically for those who transition in prison, they're not quite the same threat per se because they weren't walking around as TWs when committing the crime. Hence, their victims would not have seen them as TWs at all. The statistic we need would be how many people are transitioned and presenting as TWs when committing a crime, since that's the group indistinguishable from harmless TWs day-to-day.

I guess the other slight subtlety is that sexual assault by deception is a sex crime that can only be committed by trans people, so ideally that would also be controlled for and accounted slightly differently (not trying to diminish it, it is a crime). Statistics are a pain!

Yes, I agree it would make sense to record them as two separate groups (trans before imprisonment vs trans after imprisonment) as it could be an important point. I'm aware that studies exist that show the rate of offending compared to non-transitioned males in general, I'd be interested though in the history of offending prior to transition for the former group.

I think a sorely missed aspect of the process is whether the individual poses a risk, without going down the 'we're all harmful' rabbit hole. If a potential transitioner has clearly quite sexual motivations behind their 'identity as a woman' then I think it should be investigated how that actuslly plays out in public life. Investigating AGP is not typically done anymore, unfortunately (not to say all AGPs are fundamentally harmful but the more extreme end of the AGP spectrum involves narcissistic rage and severe sexual deviancy).

Helleofabore · 05/05/2025 12:32

TroubledWatersTW · 05/05/2025 11:59

I like to call it Prison-Onset Gender Dysphoria (POGD) 😆
(actually I just searched and other people are calling it that too!)

Certainly from my individual perspective I struggle to contemplate having sexual relations with my male genitalia at all, much less raping someone. It does seem to be a very different problem, if it is even the same thing. As ever though, we have no easy way of distinguishing between the harmless and the harmful in society so we all end up being treated alike.

I suppose specifically for those who transition in prison, they're not quite the same threat per se because they weren't walking around as TWs when committing the crime. Hence, their victims would not have seen them as TWs at all. The statistic we need would be how many people are transitioned and presenting as TWs when committing a crime, since that's the group indistinguishable from harmless TWs day-to-day.

I guess the other slight subtlety is that sexual assault by deception is a sex crime that can only be committed by trans people, so ideally that would also be controlled for and accounted slightly differently (not trying to diminish it, it is a crime). Statistics are a pain!

It should be recorded as its own category within the overall category of rape or sexual assault because it is a non-consensual sex act.

We have had at least one poster on this board who has defended their right to sex in stealth as they described it. Some of us now are very well versed in the topic because of that male poster’s defence that it is their right to have sex and not disclose what sex they are.

TroubledWatersTW · 05/05/2025 12:38

Well I think the issue is, as I'm sure others will put better, how should a woman react when she comes across an unkown TW (just like when they come across an unknown man)? Obviously you or I may know in ourselves that we are no threat to women, (just as any male may know that) but a woman who meets us in a one-on-one situation doesn't know that for sure. So she will react according to her own knowledge and perception of the average rate of offences, in this case the average TW offence rate (which matches that of other males).

Even if psychiatrists carefully vetted who was "allowed" to be a TW, a woman meeting us is not going to know if we've been vetted or are self-IDing, so it provides little reassurance. It may well be that certain subsets of TW have a lower offending rate, but if they are indistinguishable from a victim's perspective, then it's irrelevant. No one (I think) is saying "all TWs are harmful", they're saying "we can't tell who is and who isn't". Just like with any males. So proportionate safety steps are taken (like single-sex spaces).

ArabellaScott · 05/05/2025 12:46

Take into account that some paraphilias include both fetishitic transvestism and indecent exposure.

Women need to risk assess for that, too.

Helleofabore · 05/05/2025 12:51

It doesn’t even matter whether that male person is likely to be a risk or not. Female people need spaces away from any male person for many different reasons.

Safeguarding is vital. But it is not the only reason and never was the only reason.

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