Kathleen Stock - "These people are just a bit thick"

[Another2Cats]

So, Kathleen Stock has just made her views on people like Joylon Maugham et al known.

She started off with a tweet that said:

"Never mind the serious reputations, the accents, the swagger, the BBC connections, the Guardian column, the KC status, the rave book reviews, or whatever it is - like no other issue, trans ideology shows up people who are really quite stupid."

Which, not unsurprisingly, got a lot of replies. Some in support and some defending these people.

In reply to those defending these people she then had this to say. It's a different take on how to approach the argument. Don't know if I entirely agree:
.

I never do a long post but first time for everything. Lots of lively comment on my "they are just quite thick" explanation of Establishment transactivism capture (proposed hashtags #itsthestupidstupid #makeidiocymortifyingagain).

Also, some alternative explanations being proposed. I suppose my conclusion is: it doesn't matter if they really ARE thick, or just pretending/left-brained/lost in a cult/cosseted from the consequences/ smart in a way that makes them susceptible to motivated reasoning.

Having spent best part of six years (FML) arguing patiently with these people, a) I am not convinced of the more charitable explanations for notable characters, and b) either way, I don't care any more. If it walks like a moron, talks like a moron, it is – for all relevant purposes– a moron, and we should say so.

So for instance (just a small selection from timeline today):

• if you think transwomen (men) are to women what step-parents are to their children YOU ARE A MORON (think it through to the end: when was the metaphorical marriage? wtf is "womaning" as a verb? Wearing kneesocks?)

• If you think you can't know your own sex because you haven't seen your chromosomes YOU ARE A MORON (if that is the burden of proof, how do you personally know you have a brain?)

• If you think that the Supreme Court should have "consulted trans people" about their "lived experience" while interpreting existing law YOU ARE A MORON, this is not what courts do; and for good reason - how would it be workably scaled up?

• If you base your glowing view of trans ideology on what your daughter at private school and all her mates tell you (it doesn't affect us, Dad, why can't they just be kind?), then YOU ARE A MORON. What kind of general epistemology is that, exactly? You seem to be confusing having 360 degree insight into the intersection of law and social reality with them being able to use the remote better than you can.

I see so many people on here trying to shame the likes of Maugham, Campbell, Stewart, Harman (insert your most annoying establishment shill for transactivism here) on the grounds of their ethical failures and inability to empathise with vulnerable or respect basic fairness norms. It is hopeless. These people are utterly convinced of their moral rectitude, they automatically take disagreement as a sign of the limited mindset of their opposition.

We should forget all that, and hit them where it hurts: in the ego. THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST A BIT THICK. They are promoted way above their station, have blustered through on their accents, educations, and connections, and now the tide is going out, we can truly see who is naked. Let's learn from this, and never trust their so-called expertise on any other matter again.

https://x.com/Docstockk/status/1917165815339589823

100% correct. We are not really arguing with the obviously captured ones who will never change what passes for their minds. We are trying to bring calm logic to those who may be hearing this for the first time

No, Stock provided some helpful guidance on views that are demonstrably moronic.

Agree. I think many are thick, but equally a lot are just bad faith actors who know perfectly well they are talking rubbish, but say it anyway because it serves some kind of purpose or agenda for them.

Even the most genderwoo-addled young people I’ve met make slips occasionally, which betray all too well that they don’t really believe in what they say.

I think there is another perspective that DocStock doesn't include. I see many, obviously educated people, mistake verbal reasoning for logical analysis. They believe that if they can construct a sentence which is correct from a grammar and vocabulary point of view, then what they are saying also makes sense in reality. Lawyers are trained to do this because it can be persuasive when presenting a case. Keir Starmer falls back on this regularly. Helen Joyce (a mathematician) never does it! I think philosophers are probably trained to avoid it also.

And highlighting common techniques among those who do not engage in good faith.

Bunbury used to be helpful for this.

Also, I do think gender ideology rots the brain. Institutions or people who go along with it seem to completely lose all rational thought and sense of perspective, not just in relation to gender, but a lot of other things as well. It’s not only a litmus test for thickness; just going along with any of it ruins one’s ability to think coherently and clearly.

No, I have friends and relatives who hold different opinions to me on a range of subjects and mostly I can see their point of view even if I don’t agree with it. But yes, if you think a man can say ‘I’m a woman’ and that should give him a magic pass to be treated as a woman for all purposes then I do think that you must be a moron, or if I’m being generous that you don’t have the mental ability to think through the consequences.

It’s actually quite brilliant because that’s the general argument with these people - everyone else is stupid and they aren’t as enlightened as they are.

I make no apology for the belief that anyone who truly thinks humans can change sex are absolutely stupid, and more than a little bit thick. This is not something one needs to be kind about. Some of us have educated ourselves. Those whom believe humans can change sex and that men can become women (and vice versa) clearly have not. Only one side of all this have scientific fact on their side. The other has opinions and feelingz. While I do not usually agree with using the word moron to denigrate others, in this instance, people such as the kimono-clad fox killer, little Owen Jones and David Tennant are morons.

God, my crush on Doc Stock grows ever more! 🤭

We’ve had this conversation before, you’re confusing your opinion with facts. People can’t change sex, saying it repeatedly doesn’t make it true. All of the public figures that pretend they agree know full well that it isn’t true, they are agreeing to further their own agenda.

You say that all affronted as if it wasn't the exact point doc Stock is making and we are agreeing with.

It’s cult behaviour though isn’t it? Slavishly repeating the mantra and anyone who falters is banished.

Refreshing to read this

The trans agenda is the ultimate in the emperor's new clothes and the madness is only going to end if enough people point out that the emperor is stark bollock naked and that those refusing to say so are behaving like idiots

If you think you can't know your own sex because you haven't seen your chromosomes YOU ARE A MORON

I love this sentence so much. It makes me smile and LOTI
😊😄

Very intelligent people can lack critical thinking skills, or just not be very thoughtful or honest at all and in many ways the cleverer you are the easier it is to fool yourself, indulge in post hoc rationalisations. Belief in Trans ideology is just that a belief rooted in feelings, not facts or observable reality.

It is a mistake to try and engage people with these kind of feeling led beliefs rationally, that is not where they are at, not at all.

@colta. Yes. Am constantly surprised by the amount of people who lack critical thinking skills. If you point this out to them, they get very upset and incredibly defensive about it, always turning it back to me not knowing what I'm talking about/of course they can think critically. Very intelligent/learned men are the worst for this IME

and the follow up about not having seen your own brain

They believe that if they can construct a sentence which is correct from a grammar and vocabulary point of view, then what they are saying also makes sense in reality.

Using this to construct a closing argument or win a debate is one thing - it's a trick of certain trades (emphasis on trick). But if they actually believe it, then they're not very bright. Well educated, possibly, but lacking genuine intelligence.

I don’t feel too sad seeing these people being called thick. They’ve been saying the same to us for years- saying that we never got beyond High School biology because we say that sex is binary and we all know what sex we are.

Stock is wonderful. I know I’m far from the only straight woman with a big crush on KS and her big brain.

As for whether all of them are thick- well probably. But some of them might be well aware they’re talking bollocks but are obliged to carry on with it because they have enabled their own ‘trans’ children. They’re now having to gaslight themselves in order to cope, which must feel a tad uncomfortable.

As for the difference between a stupid argument and a stupid person ... I agree to an extent.

But when a person has made stupid arguments, and only stupid arguments, repeatedly, you have to conclude it is not only the argument that's stupid.

Agree. It's sickening.

I don’t feel too sad seeing these people being called thick. They’ve been saying the same to us for years- saying that we never got beyond High School biology because we say that sex is binary and we all know what sex we are.

I've heard that repeatedly, and I wonder how many of them ever got past high school science. The TRAs I know have degrees coming out of their ears, and not one of them in a hard science.

People bragging about their ology don't impress me much if it's only sociology (I make an exception for Alice Sullivan who's at the quantitative data side of sociology)

And besides, if the young folx are anything to go by, there's an amazing level of crap being taught in high school biology these days. Kids believing they can literally change sex in the sense that a man can become a woman and literally birth babies. I'm not saying we older people don't have our weaknesses, but we don't believe in a concept of sex change that Monty Python were taking the piss out of 45 years ago in Life of Brian.

I don't think they are. All of these roles require the ability to argue that day is night /the bloke with a knife covered in blood in his hand just happened to trip over the body of his girlfriend and pick the knife up/ the immigrants are coming for YOUR job / the nature of whatever the fuck it is isn't that from the latest fashionable or most unfashionable writer or scientist without any heed to anything other than the aim of defeating the opposition. It's not that they're thick. It's that they want to win over women and girls.

They want males to have access to women and girls. They want to be the victor over women and girls. They want to be seen to defeat the other view. They want to destroy their competitor, their opponent, to obliterate the enemy in a way that means they can never, ever, contradict them because they can't even use their collective noun anymore to voice what is being done to them.

Their enemies are women and girls. Whether it's because they couldn't get a girlfriend they felt entitled to, a job they wanted, or if they cannot countenance somebody else being respected or liked more than them, they see women and girls as the enemy that must be destroyed, erased and without a hope of recovery at all costs.

They know males aren't females. But by screaming, shouting, threatening, blackmailing, raging and cajoling, they get to destroy not just women and girls but what defines a woman or a girl. So they aim to win by taking away the name.

A few years ago, they'd have been encouraging others to burn heretics, going for a day out at the gallows and getting the majority of the rage out of their system with a bit of colonisation, holy war, marital rape, some bull baiting and a bunch of war crimes under their belts. These days they mostly stick to attacking women verbally because they're not really allowed to batter them anymore.

I thought moron was a medical
term - like cretin.

I find it less offensive than cis - I don't like being referred to by that term. It really offends me.

Trans women calling for cis support ....

Bloody good post @NeverDropYourMooncup. It’s all just old-fashioned misogyny but with rainbows and frocks as a cunning disguise.