Kathleen Stock - "These people are just a bit thick"

[Another2Cats]

So, Kathleen Stock has just made her views on people like Joylon Maugham et al known.

She started off with a tweet that said:

"Never mind the serious reputations, the accents, the swagger, the BBC connections, the Guardian column, the KC status, the rave book reviews, or whatever it is - like no other issue, trans ideology shows up people who are really quite stupid."

Which, not unsurprisingly, got a lot of replies. Some in support and some defending these people.

In reply to those defending these people she then had this to say. It's a different take on how to approach the argument. Don't know if I entirely agree:
.

I never do a long post but first time for everything. Lots of lively comment on my "they are just quite thick" explanation of Establishment transactivism capture (proposed hashtags #itsthestupidstupid #makeidiocymortifyingagain).

Also, some alternative explanations being proposed. I suppose my conclusion is: it doesn't matter if they really ARE thick, or just pretending/left-brained/lost in a cult/cosseted from the consequences/ smart in a way that makes them susceptible to motivated reasoning.

Having spent best part of six years (FML) arguing patiently with these people, a) I am not convinced of the more charitable explanations for notable characters, and b) either way, I don't care any more. If it walks like a moron, talks like a moron, it is – for all relevant purposes– a moron, and we should say so.

So for instance (just a small selection from timeline today):

• if you think transwomen (men) are to women what step-parents are to their children YOU ARE A MORON (think it through to the end: when was the metaphorical marriage? wtf is "womaning" as a verb? Wearing kneesocks?)

• If you think you can't know your own sex because you haven't seen your chromosomes YOU ARE A MORON (if that is the burden of proof, how do you personally know you have a brain?)

• If you think that the Supreme Court should have "consulted trans people" about their "lived experience" while interpreting existing law YOU ARE A MORON, this is not what courts do; and for good reason - how would it be workably scaled up?

• If you base your glowing view of trans ideology on what your daughter at private school and all her mates tell you (it doesn't affect us, Dad, why can't they just be kind?), then YOU ARE A MORON. What kind of general epistemology is that, exactly? You seem to be confusing having 360 degree insight into the intersection of law and social reality with them being able to use the remote better than you can.

I see so many people on here trying to shame the likes of Maugham, Campbell, Stewart, Harman (insert your most annoying establishment shill for transactivism here) on the grounds of their ethical failures and inability to empathise with vulnerable or respect basic fairness norms. It is hopeless. These people are utterly convinced of their moral rectitude, they automatically take disagreement as a sign of the limited mindset of their opposition.

We should forget all that, and hit them where it hurts: in the ego. THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST A BIT THICK. They are promoted way above their station, have blustered through on their accents, educations, and connections, and now the tide is going out, we can truly see who is naked. Let's learn from this, and never trust their so-called expertise on any other matter again.

https://x.com/Docstockk/status/1917165815339589823

I have long thought that there are only 2 options when people say TWAW - they're lying or they're stupid. There really are no other explanations.

So I think she's got a point.

Bendigedig !

Me too.

That's a good point. I used to work with a woman who didn't believe in evolution (I think it was tied up with her religious beliefs). She told me that all dinosaur bones had been planted and scientific belief about evolution was all made up.

I wouldn't have said to her face 'thats not true, you're stupid', but I think it did show that she wasn't very intelligent and/or wilfully ignorant which pretty much amounts to the same thing.

I'm with Marie on "moron". I also worry it risks playing into the "you're all bigots" narrative - when there's little/no evidence for this, why give them anything, however utterly tenuous, to cling to?

"Thick" is more complicated! I wouldn't say it myself (...yet - give me a few more years of this!) but completely understand why someone would, both from an emotional perspective (it's exhausting right now), and also a strategic one (it really does feel as though it's a case of, they offer vapid soundbites, we construct evidenced arguments... & they're heard while we're dismissed!)

I sometimes wonder if we should have cried "Bigot!" first. Once again, instead, we carefully refer to the ideology as sexist/homophobic etc., with thoughtful justifications, all while we're being condemned more directly by their insults... and, once again, our nuance just falls through the cracks in the public mind, with the big, chunky insults coming to rest comfortably at the very top of their consciousness.

It's infuriating, I do know that.

Personally, I think there’s a difference between saying an argument is stupid and saying the person is stupid.

But I can absolutely understand how KS got to this point given the years of having to pussyfoot around this nonsense while the claims of gender identity ideology became wilder and wilder.

It’s bloody hard to always be the grown up.

I also used to work with someone who didn’t believe in evolution on religious grounds and he wanted to convince everyone else to his way of thinking so there were a lot of discussions of people trying to explain to him why he was wrong, I flat out refused to discuss it, it wasn’t an opinion I was interested in dignifying with a response.

We know she's right.

Because any who believes humans can change sex is an idiot.

I have met fellow biologists who don't believe in evolution but they all had strong religious backgrounds, one is a Mormon, another grew up in an evangelical church, and one was a WeeFree.

Haha! I was brought up believing the same thing actually. But I have a bit of curiosity about the world I live in, so I looked into it and changed my mind. Some people don't have the slightest curiosity about the truth. There is only what benefits them personally to believe.

Evolution used to be furiously debated in LDS circles, but it's not been a massive issue in decades. Young Earth creationism isn't much of a thing in mainstream Mormonism. Probably there are too many scientists in church leadership.

You might find the occasional clash on whether the human species evolved in Africa, while the scriptures teach that Adam and Eve lived in Jackson County, Missouri.

She would be in her early 50s now, very good biochemist who used phylogenetic trees for her research, like to design primers for proteins. She was quite pragmatic about it.

I think it is brilliant and she is being deliberately insulting and goading.

We should forget all that, and hit them where it hurts: in the ego. THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST A BIT THICK

I love that woman.

She's absolutely right.

Agree with Doc Stock. They Are Thick!

I don't like the words dumb or stupid, but I do get it.

It's the sunken cost thingamabob. By admitting that they got it wrong, or partially wrong, they would be giving up too much.

Calling people "a bit thick" doesn't really get to the heart of the problem. It doesn't really convey how dangerous these people are. "Stupid like a fox" might be a more helpful description. Most of these people are cunning, unscrupulous silver tongued liars, deceivers and manipulators.

You think anyone with a different opinion to you is thick? Ok. It must be just great to always be right, but don't worry, im just a moran, according to you and your ilk.

What's a moran?

If you can't see the obvious issues in insisting that men mustn't be humiliated or distressed by being refused women's spaces, but don't see or recognise the equal issues for women? Yes. I agree. That doesn't indicate a whole lot of intelligence.

It's not just a different opinion though is it. It's believing the impossible, that humans can change sex which is akin to believing the Earth is flat.
Both beliefs are patently wrong.

A woman who says she’s a feminist but then throws women under the bus when she wants to look like one of the cool kids?

The thing is, it doesn't matter what language women used to expose all this. Diplomatic, cautious, kind, gentle, fierce, passionate, empathic, insightful, clear, scientific, rude, accurate....... and lots more. Nothing that women say is acceptable.

This was an ideology forcibly imposed on an unconsenting society using a mix of threats, coercive control, actual violence, intimidation and fear. In the workplace, in social groupings, in families and communities.

#NODEBATE was the mantra and so many people (including Kathleen) lost careers, work, opportunities, friends and families. All for saying what the Supreme Court have now said.

It's probably irrelevant to this discussion but I've never forgotten how the tactics of abusive men were showcased in this thread way back in 2019 with women civil servants literally being schooled in how to hide their feelings on finding a man in the women's toilets.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3520371-civil-service-trans-policy-what-can-i-do

We've been dealing with this shit for years yet are now expected to be demure and thankful that our rights have been confirmed and to ignore all those still arguing that the SC is wrong.

#makeidiocymortifyingagain

Great post.

Thick as dried shit on a hot day!