Wetherspoons on the SC Ruling

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Don't know if this has been posted yet, sorry if it has - but thought it was interesting!

So they are ignoring the law?

My local Wetherspoons has little opaque glass windows in each cubicle door. 🙄

I'm surprised they've not come down on the side of biology on this tbh.

Kids at the org SM account again?

Yes, that's a total misunderstanding of the law- in other words, breaking it.

Well, this is going to be interesting. I know a fair number of people who boycott Wetherspoons because of the owner's outspoken support for Brexit and possible dubious behaviour during Covid (I've seen varying explanations of that and I'm still not clear on what really happened).
Some of the boycotters know about the above, but I'm sure some haven't really thought about it and just see it as part of the Great Omnicause that means they are on the Right Side Of History, so I expect some squirming when one of the villains comes out in support of "Trans rights".

Kids on the SM account will account for a lot of businesses announcing stuff like this I reckon.

I very much doubt that is official Spoons policy. Just some Blue-Hair sounding off.

Well that is embarrassing for them. How to announce to the world you’re stupid without announcing to the world you’re stupid.

I thought the SC ruling meant that organisations could now ban trans people from male or female spaces if they wanted to, but they don’t have to.

They can but they do not have to. I think people on this board have got a little too excited and missed the word can, it’s can not must.

We do not tolerate discrimination in any form - well they obviously do - they tolerate discrimination based on sex. Personally I think they are being rather stupid making a very public declaration as it’s all evidence if anyone wants to bring a claim.

Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s clear that it’s illegal. They aren’t required to provide single sex toilets for customers. Most of the laws around toilets are focused on staff and school kids. With businesses, I think, market forces were just expected to push them to treat their customers decently and until about 15 years ago, they pretty much did.

I don’t think it’s been established that simply sticking male and female signs on toilets would constitute creating a service that the single sex exemption applied to. Unless there is something in regulations somewhere about toilets provided to the public having to be fully enclosed cubicles unless they are single sex, then I think it would be a matter of proving it amounted to indirect sex discrimination.

I think this pre-dates the EHRC interim guidance. Be interesting to see if the tune changes should the press get interested.

Clear discrimination against females wishing to have single sex toilets would be my reading of that. 🥺

https://x.com/JenKteach/status/1916132194415681719

Scroll down to the tweet about Danielle.

Mixed sex toilets plus alcohol is the worst of ideas. Wetherspoons has a reputation for putting their toilets at the back of beyond. There are many memes about it. The loos in our local one are up two flights of stairs. It can feel quite creepy and isolated finding them when it's quiet.

I don’t think this was drafted by a lawyer. The first sentence of the second paragraph contradicts the entire first paragraph. Namely: une belle salade aux mots sans sens

No, they don't have to. But if they don't provide women with their own dedicated space, they could quite easily be indirectly discriminating against them. Mixed sex toilets are a lot more dangerous for women than men.

Plus, women's biology means that the list of things they need toilets for is a lot longer.

I believe if they have already designated toilets as men's and women's, they'd have a hard time explaining why suddenly they no longer thought it was necessary

We definitely don't tolerate discrimination! Cept against women. Obvs.

Open door there now for anyone who wants to try a legal claim.

I’m surprised. I don’t think that’s in line with what the boss said a few days ago.

They have to label the door appropriately- if it says ‘ladies’ then it’s women only. If it’s allowing trans identifying men in, then it needs a different sticker. And I will stop using them.

The single sex exceptions protect them from claims of sex discrimination. If they don’t use them they for go this protection. If their staff use the same toilets then they are not abiding by other legislation as in the workplace regulations. If this is not the case then they can carry on as normal but it puts them in a weaker position if a claim is made against them, especially if they have alternative provision in place.

I think they got emailed on Friday or Saturday and the EHRC guidance was published around 9pm on Friday to virtually no media coverage because of the pops funeral. I suspect the first most ppl at Spoons HQ will Know about this is what they may have seen vaguely on
tje media yesterday

I expect there will be some rowing back

IANAL, but it is my understanding that while pubs and other places that provide toilets for their customers do not have to provide single-sex toilets, if they label them single-sex — ie, Men/Women, male symbol/female symbol, Ladies/Gents — then they must be single-sex. Also I think they can’t provide only a Men/Everyone else option. If they offer men the chance to have a single-sex option, they must give women the same. They can re-label all their toilets as unisex though.

Mo they don’t have too but what they must do it to be clear whther the provision is single sex or mixed sex so if the sign says womens then it can only be biological women. If they want to let TW use tjen too then it must be correctly labelled mixed sex

And enclosed single use rooms.

But it's a bit stupid to release a 'we dont follow the law or respect the right of women not to be discriminated against' statement.

The law means that they should not be labelling toilets male/men or female/women if they are in fact mixed sex.

So if Wetherspoons want to put their money where their mouth is they need to convert all their toilets to unisex, which includes removing all urinals.