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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Lambpieforme · 21/04/2025 19:09

Damn, I thought Billy Bragg was one of the good guys, so disappointed.

ThePenguinIsDrunk · 21/04/2025 19:09

BridasShieldWall · 21/04/2025 13:00

They are relying on The Good Law Project for a legal opinion 😂

Spotted a couple of names I know - Russell T Davies, Sara Pascoe, Billy Bragg - no surprises there.

BTW I find the word ‘bioessentialism’ really annoying - it’s meant to sound divisive and right wing but believing in biological facts is logical.

And none of the TRA/Transympathisers actually understand what bio-essentialism is.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2025 19:10

Lambpieforme · 21/04/2025 19:09

Damn, I thought Billy Bragg was one of the good guys, so disappointed.

Oh my sweet summer child. Where have you been? Not on Twitter, I assume.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2025 19:12

JeremiahBullfrog · 21/04/2025 18:16

People are perfectly free to lobby Parliament for changes to the law. Trying to pressure judges to interpret the law the way you'd like it to be makes you look rather anti-democratic. Sadly this is how Americans do things nowadays and this lot absolutely worships any rubbish that comes out of the American left.

Which is weird given that the American left is more on a par with the UK Conservatives in most respects, not Labour.

Almost as if these people are completely clueless.

Molto · 21/04/2025 19:13

Windscreenviper · 21/04/2025 19:01

"We’re completely erased from the conversation and when we are invited to talk, it’s always framed as a ‘debate’. But when you frame trans rights as a debate, you’re starting from an anti-trans point of view,” said Gabriel."

I don't understand this statement. I think it's begging the question.

Anyway, I read the letter, and there were a few links incorporated, with one being about 186% increase in violent crimes against trans people in the last five years. Being interested to discover what this meant, I followed the link and it took me a Stonewall page where there was no information at all about what this meant. It didn't define what it meant by violent crime, and it didn't give examples.

I don't like the thought that there is a huge increase in violent crime against anybody. I dislike the idea that people are suffering violent crimes because of the way they look or the way they think. But if a statement such as that is going to be released then there needs to be information and analysis to enable proper understanding. Rhetoric just doesn't cut it.

@Windscreenviper

Anyway, I read the letter, and there were a few links incorporated, with one being about 186% increase in violent crimes against trans people in the last five years. Being interested to discover what this meant, I followed the link and it took me a Stonewall page where there was no information at all about what this meant. It didn't define what it meant by violent crime, and it didn't give examples.

I think about these kinds of stats all the time, and agree completely. Until someone can drill down into what they actually mean, it's the same kind of thing as "trans people's average age of death is 30", ie. untrue and completely unhelpful. Is it physical assaults (terrible, should never happen)? Or is it the more nebulous "words are physical assault" type of violent crime, in which someone can be violently attacked by being misgendered? I sound like I'm making fun, but with crime reporting stats from the police being what they are, this is a very real query, one which never seems to be answered by the Guardian, Pink News, et al.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2025 19:22

Molto · 21/04/2025 19:13

@Windscreenviper

Anyway, I read the letter, and there were a few links incorporated, with one being about 186% increase in violent crimes against trans people in the last five years. Being interested to discover what this meant, I followed the link and it took me a Stonewall page where there was no information at all about what this meant. It didn't define what it meant by violent crime, and it didn't give examples.

I think about these kinds of stats all the time, and agree completely. Until someone can drill down into what they actually mean, it's the same kind of thing as "trans people's average age of death is 30", ie. untrue and completely unhelpful. Is it physical assaults (terrible, should never happen)? Or is it the more nebulous "words are physical assault" type of violent crime, in which someone can be violently attacked by being misgendered? I sound like I'm making fun, but with crime reporting stats from the police being what they are, this is a very real query, one which never seems to be answered by the Guardian, Pink News, et al.

The other thing is that when you talk about a percentage increase in something, it's really important to know what the starting point was.

If one trans person is murdered each year on average, and then one year two trans people are murdered, you can say that the rate of trans murders has increased by 100%. But because your starting point was so low, it can be a 100% increase and still be a very small number.

Whereas if 100 women are murdered each year on average and then one year 120 women are murdered, the rate at which women are being murdered has increased by 20%. That sounds like a lot less than the 100% increase in trans murders, but it means a hell of a lot more women are suddenly being murdered.

I am inherently suspicious of any statistic presented as a X% increase in something, without giving an indication of total numbers. Because very often it means very small numbers, presented in a deliberately scaremongering way.

worriedmum7777 · 21/04/2025 19:36

Christ. I’m shocked. Why do so many people hate women so?

Lambpieforme · 21/04/2025 19:37

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2025 19:12

Which is weird given that the American left is more on a par with the UK Conservatives in most respects, not Labour.

Almost as if these people are completely clueless.

Gave up on twitter a long time ago thankfully. Obviously missed out on some vile stuff.

worriedmum7777 · 21/04/2025 19:38

Lambpieforme · 21/04/2025 19:09

Damn, I thought Billy Bragg was one of the good guys, so disappointed.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

er, no

he’s a complete tit

CherryBlossomPie · 21/04/2025 19:45

Forgettingblue · 21/04/2025 13:28

Really?

The UK Supreme Court ruling of 17th April 2025 was the result of a coordinated and privately funded attack on the human rights and dignity of trans and non-binary people in the UK

You think a letter that starts like this and continues in this vein, which says the court was on shaky legal ground, could be signed by someone who supports the ruling? You think this is not polarising language? Or extremist language?

The court action was not an attack on anyone but a defence of the existing legal protections women had under the Equality Act. I am tired of this whopper of a lie that it is trans rights that have been eroded, whereas in the past ten years it is women's existing legal rights that in practice, and in actual demonstrable reality have been eroded. This court case clarifies women' existing legal rights and reminded everyone of the rights trans people have AS trans people under the law.

So these writers are openly lying about what has actually happened.

What Equity and the Writers Guild should have done is write to assert to women and to trans people that they will uphold both groups clarified legal rights. Because that is how to signal you are not being polarising.

Edited

But it's just an opinion (if you agree with the part you have bolded).

I personally think its a matter of perspective. If you are trans then yes you might feel attacked. But yes it was a defence of course. Is it really an attack on their human rights. Debatable.

I would have preferred it was a letter to say both rights would be upholded too. But this is the arts. The space where its meant to be about inclusivity, where ideas are meant to be presented for debate and not forgone conclusion, where possibility is meant to exist.

SerafinasGoose · 21/04/2025 19:46

BridasShieldWall · 21/04/2025 13:00

They are relying on The Good Law Project for a legal opinion 😂

Spotted a couple of names I know - Russell T Davies, Sara Pascoe, Billy Bragg - no surprises there.

BTW I find the word ‘bioessentialism’ really annoying - it’s meant to sound divisive and right wing but believing in biological facts is logical.

It's hilarious, because essentialism has nothing to bloody do with biology.

The idea that there is a core, or essence of humanity beyond our material bodies - 'I think, therefore I am', is at its root. And this idea of a core, unified, rational subject had started to break down by the mid-nineteenth century. Although this breakdown is often placed with the mid-20th-century existentialists it in fact started long before this and had certainly taken root strongly by the 1890s.

Essentialism is the gendered idea that women are nurturers, carers, support humans etc - gendered attributes arbitrarily attached to our sex and accepted as 'natural, common-sense' discourse. What it is not, is the biololgical fact that we have a vag and tits.

Are these people really as stupid and uninformed as they appear? (Disclaimer: that was a rhetorical question) 😖

FigRollsAlly · 21/04/2025 19:47

Glad to see that none of my favourite writers are on there and the only name I recognise, apart from those already mentioned, is Elizabeth Day.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2025 19:47

Lambpieforme · 21/04/2025 19:37

Gave up on twitter a long time ago thankfully. Obviously missed out on some vile stuff.

Well you certainly missed Billy Bragg spewing his particularly vomit-worthy brand of progressive misogyny on a daily basis for the last few years.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/04/2025 19:55

Billy Bragg was so well-informed about this debate that he said something that revealed he thought puberty blockers were the same as beta blockers.

Lambpieforme · 21/04/2025 19:55

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2025 19:47

Well you certainly missed Billy Bragg spewing his particularly vomit-worthy brand of progressive misogyny on a daily basis for the last few years.

What a shame, he wrote some beautiful songs a few decades ago. Now he can’t think straight, sad.

PriOn1 · 21/04/2025 19:56

QuietlyLurkingintheCorner · 21/04/2025 17:03

Apologies, my perimenopausal brain got Holly Webb muddled with Daisy Meadows. Holly Webb is indeed a person, so can take full responsibility for adding her name to the stupid letter 😄

I can’t be bothered going back to check, but I think Daisy Meadows was on there too.

ArabellaScott · 21/04/2025 19:57

Lambpieforme · 21/04/2025 19:55

What a shame, he wrote some beautiful songs a few decades ago. Now he can’t think straight, sad.

His best song was a Woody Guthrie cover.

Lambpieforme · 21/04/2025 20:00

ArabellaScott · 21/04/2025 19:57

His best song was a Woody Guthrie cover.

I’m going to listen to all his earlier stuff and lament what he has become. I’m glad that I left twitter and missed his demise.

teawamutu · 21/04/2025 20:06

FigRollsAlly · 21/04/2025 19:47

Glad to see that none of my favourite writers are on there and the only name I recognise, apart from those already mentioned, is Elizabeth Day.

I read Friendaholic and came to the conclusion that I'd cross the road to avoid meeting her. Utterly unsurprised to see her on this bandwagon.

Lark1ane · 21/04/2025 20:09

Ohyoudodoyou · 21/04/2025 12:45

Yes I saw that and can only conclude that here is an artsy fartsy Jamie Carragher out there as it ain’t him I’m pretty certain of that!

Gary Neville and Roy Keane are not on there, so it can't be the Real Jamie, just someone who identifies as him.

The rest are all z listers with one or two exceptions of being professional luvvies.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2025 20:09

Lambpieforme · 21/04/2025 19:55

What a shame, he wrote some beautiful songs a few decades ago. Now he can’t think straight, sad.

I feel the same way about Philip Pullman. Arsehole.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 20:14

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2025 20:09

I feel the same way about Philip Pullman. Arsehole.

He's not on that list though so is he reverse ferreting I wonder?

Either way I'll never forgive him. He knows what a woman is.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 21/04/2025 20:17

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 20:14

He's not on that list though so is he reverse ferreting I wonder?

Either way I'll never forgive him. He knows what a woman is.

He wrote Sally Lockhart. Of course he knows what a woman is. Fucking wanker. Put him in the same pile as Margaret Atwood.

StepawayfromtheLindors · 21/04/2025 20:23

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/04/2025 19:55

Billy Bragg was so well-informed about this debate that he said something that revealed he thought puberty blockers were the same as beta blockers.

Oh classic 😂

Lark1ane · 21/04/2025 20:25

Phew. Robert Galbraith isn't on there.
I'd have been gutted.Wink
<Carries on reading Cormoran Strike>