What are you feeling since the judgement?

[BlessingKalmly]

A space to explore the emotions, thoughts and feelings post judgement; that Women are BORN and not worn.

A request: If TRA's join and derail, PLEASE can we totally ignore them like we might a gnat. Please let's not unfocus from us, the women who have seen this fight through to the end

Personally, I'm feeling a whole range of emotions.

I feel elated, I have that feeling like I have to almost pinch myself to remind myself that this madness has ended. I feel emboldened to speak my truth, I feel powerful in protecting my sisters. I feel slightly in shock... as if I haven't fully been able to process the madness of the past few years.... it's been constant fight, fight, fight for our rights, and only now can I stop and take stock of WHAT THE F* went on.

At the same time I feel so DEEPLY effing ANGRY at the men lamenting over not being able to give away rights that were never theirs in the first place. Men lamenting over something that has no impact on them.

I feel deep sadness and frustration that people can't seem to find a single fuck about severely disabled, or elderly women who deserve the right to truly female only care.

I feel so confused over how fucking stupid some people are, sharing memes and propaganda without ZERO understanding of how the Equality Act works or what any of this means in practice.

I feel so deeply thankful that our justice system remains strong, and a beacon of sense a truth in what feels like times of madness.

I feel like I could facepalm myself into oblivion, watching trans-maidens totally disregard their sisters and pander over men's rights.

What about you?

I just want to address this point from @CosyTaupeShark:

• It’s not ‘emotive garbage’ about trans men, it’s reality. What about if a trans man has a disability where he needs consistent access to public bathrooms? The clarification around sex puts them in a very difficult position, and I’ve even seen people on here recognise that! But if you find yourself having an empathetic emotional response to what I’m saying, that’s interesting to me. A lot of people on here (not necessarily the person who posted this) deliberately dehumanise trans people in an attempt to stop feeling empathy for them.

I don't feel that you have thought your question through. If a trans person has a disability requiring consistent access to public toilets, the appropriate facilities would be disabled toilets. Sadly, it's not uncommon amongst trans men who go through early menopause due to testosterone and experience vaginal atrophy. In that case I would advise them to get a RADAR key and use a continence aid for backup if toilet access is questionable-- just like I would advise any non-trans person with questionable continence.

Grown ups deal with situations like this every day.

True, but these guys are definitely acting like they feel something has been taken away from them. It wasn't women who said no, it was the Supreme Court.

First rule of misogyny... blame women. Honestly it's not deep or clever it's just about hatred of women.

Quite.

It's funny how the dialogue was all about transwomen and what they want, right up until the SC judgement and now suddenly it's all about transmen. I wonder why.

However, the "transman gotcha", as it's known, is addressed in the judgement. https://x.com/MForstater/status/1913185931290460333

The stuff about dehumanising trans people by recognising that they're human and therefore can't change sex is the same old, same old. For some reason, women's feelings and needs are never mentioned.

I was very pleased. I work in the public sector. A trans women uses the female toilets. They are not uni sex. There are gaps everywhere. Some of the women will not use them. The ruling clarifies that my org is breaking the law. I’m now not afraid to say the TW are not women. I would not have dared a week ago. Even my young adult kids now agree with me. I don’t think they dared a week ago. We can now speak the truth.

Some of the women will not use them. The ruling clarifies that my org is breaking the law. I’m now not afraid to say the TW are not women.

I hope you can get some more women on side when you voice your complaint. For interest, how will you word it? It would be good to know for future reference.

They have all been so captured by the trans lobby that they will be desperate to weasel out.

First rule of misogyny... blame women.

[citation needed] Source: 4w.pub/the-rules-of-misogyny/

I feel huge relief but I don’t feel the battle is over yet. Legally, it nearly is. But there are so many angry men who seem positively incandescent that women, for once, are not simply giving them what they demand to ‘be kind’, that I feel the vitriol will go up a notch, if not a few notches, over the coming year.

I think we will now have a job on our hands enforcing the ruling, continuing to fight organisations who are captured, and holding our ground against men who are even angrier than before.

That said, do I feel reinvigorated to do it? Hell yes.

I am so so angry that vulnerable people with autism and other conditions are feeling anxious and worried, because they have been lied to in the past and continue to be lied to and gaslit by people with an agenda.

And I think I will struggle to forgive the people who caused mental distress to these vulnerable people along with physical damage from unnecessary hormones, surgical treatments and medieval torture devices like breast binders.

"What about a trans man with a disability that needs access to the loo"

I really do not understand what point you are trying to make here. What about them?
Since they have a disability they simply use the disable toilet.

Saying ‘tough luck’ isn’t how human rights works. These are people who need dignity in real time.

What about women and girls who are people who need dignity in real time?

A lot of people on here (not necessarily the person who posted this) deliberately dehumanise trans people in an attempt to stop feeling empathy for them.

The TRAs treat women and girls like support animals and threaten us with death and assault when we say no. They have dehumanised us.

Do you know what DARVO is, Shark? Because you're doing it to us, right now.

I’m not engaging in DARVO. I’m raising concerns in good faith, not denying anyone’s experiences or trying to reverse victimhood. Disagreeing or asking questions isn’t the same as manipulation. I believe we can and should talk about everyone’s dignity, including women, girls, and trans people, without dehumanizing anyone.

Also, people saying “the hypothetical disabled trans man can just use the disabled toilet” is not a solution. It overlooks the reality that disabled toilets are not always available, often have long queues, can require a radar key, and that pushing disabled people into a separate category reinforces exclusion rather than inclusion. Personally, I have kidney disease so sometimes use disabled loos, but if there’s a wheelchair user I will give them priority because technically I can use other toilets, but they can’t. It also places an unfair burden on disabled people to “make do” with less accessible or less available options.

This isn’t a hypothetical situation. Disabled trans people exist right now and are already facing these challenges in everyday life. Raising a real-world example of an existing group impacted by policy decisions is not the same as making up a hypothetical. It is highlighting the lived consequences for real people.

Yeah, again calling this the “transman gotcha” completely misses the point. This is not a trick, it is a real-world consequence for trans men who live, look, and are treated as men. Pointing to “unisex options” does not solve the issue when many public spaces do not provide them, or when those options are limited and inadequate. Saying people have made a “life choice” and must just accept exclusion from both men’s and women’s spaces ignores that everyone deserves dignity and safety in public life. These are not abstract hypotheticals. These are real barriers for real people, today. Recognising that is not a “gotcha” it is the bare minimum for treating people humanely. Calling it that really shows who is treating this issue as a debate/argument rather than something which will actually impact the lives of trans people.

It is not suspicious or sudden that people are now talking about the impact on trans men. The reality is that trans men, who have often been invisible in these debates, are also directly affected by policies based on biological categorisation. Highlighting their existence and the consequences for them is not a deflection, it is necessary if we want a full understanding of the real-world effects of these policies on everyone.

As for the claim that recognising trans people’s humanity is somehow the same as denying biological sex, that is a misunderstanding. Acknowledging that trans people are human beings deserving of dignity and safety does not require denying biological reality. It requires us to be serious about the complexities of how laws and policies operate in practice, and to care about the dignity and safety of everyone involved, including women, including trans people, including disabled people because in society we all need to coexist together.

Raising these impacts is not about erasing women’s needs. It is about insisting on solutions that protect the dignity of ALL people affected, based on reality. Not on oversimplifications, us vs them, ‘tough’ etc.

How much thought do you think trans rights activists give to women’s needs exactly @CosyTaupeShark?

Every group will contain individuals who think about the needs of other groups, and those who don’t. Again with the oversimplifications!
How much thought do you think people on here give to the needs of trans people?

AND that right there is 100% proof you have spent not one second reading this board before you jumped right in with your arrogant assumption you already know everything about what women here could ever have to say.

Yes, many women here have thought and discussed for years how trans people could be fairly accomodated, far far far far FAR more than the TRAs and their allies have ever bothered considering how women can fairly be accomodated beyond "budge up and shut up".

The threads on this board go back YEARS. Do yourself a favour and spend half a day or so making sure you are at least passingly aware of what the "people on here" have actually been saying and why before being so confidently wrong.

You’re not from around ‘ere are you.

There has been various debates and proposals for trans people, third spaces being one. Rejected. It’s women’s spaces or nothing it seems. I’m sure there are trans people who don’t want to be boundary pushers but their voices aren’t as loud as the TRAs.

Someone previously described it as:

Women - ’Sure, come and sit at my table’.
Trans - ‘no, I want your seat’.

Which sums it up I think.

Oh dear. So many crass assumptions about women on here.

I’m thinking about the needs of women and girls. Just like people who identify as transgender think about their own needs and put themselves first. You’re wasting your time if you think we’re going to be manipulated into believing other people matter more.

Yes, I am new here so don’t know this history. I was asked a question, and I asked the same question back!

I’m thinking about the needs of women and girls. Just like people who identify as transgender think about their own needs and put themselves first. You’re wasting your time if you think we’re going to be manipulated into believing other people matter more.

People on mumsnet: we’ve spent years thinking about potential solutions which support trans people to be included. We want them to have dignity too.
Also people on mumsnet: trans people are selfish.

How can you not see that statement is NOT giving a group dignity?!

People are accusing me of manipulation and misogyny (even though I AM a woman!), which is so bizarre to me.

It feels like you’re reading from a script, even when things don’t apply to what I’m saying, you just say it anyway.

You’re not addressing anything that anyone is actually saying other than telling everyone to be kind and to consider trans people’s feelings.

Biological men who go into spaces not for them, not giving any thought to the women in there and how they might feel about their male presence in there, because they feel they are a women, are absolutely selfish yes.

Not true, if you scroll back I’ve made some robust arguments and counter arguments, even when I was literally told to stop making points by the OP of this post.

What you might have noticed though is that I have stopped playing into people derailing my talking points to take it back to their script. People keep reframing the conversation back to their talking points instead of engaging with what is actually being said. This is called strategic derailment, topic control, and reframing (ironically these are all well recognised methods of manipulation). It avoids addressing the real issues by steering everything back to a pre-set narrative.

Sorry just to add in an example to the above, someone asking ‘How much thought do you think trans rights activists give to women’s needs exactly?’ was a perfect example of this I shouldn’t have played into. It was manipulative for the reasons I explained above, and it goes back to your script. It wasn’t really related at all to my previous points, only broadly on the concept of gender critical vs trans inclusion. You all jumped on me because you have in your script what to say when someone goes down that route. It’s manipulative and not a good faith conversation.