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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/04/2025 19:24

NoWordForFluffy · 16/04/2025 18:46

Fucking hell, I'm fucking doomed. Not only do I have short hair, I'm also 5'11". I've never (knowingly!) been misgendered in a public loo. In fact, I don't recall ever being misgendered to my face (I am regularly by email at work as my shortened name is used, which confuses people, despite my longer version also being in my signature!).

Never to use a public loo again. 😩😭😩😭

I've heard a couple of TWs being interviewed today who've said, completely unchallenged, that if they're not allowed to use public toilets for the gender with which they identify, they won't be able to go out and about and will therefore be excluded from public life. Why don't any interviewers ask them what they think will happen if they use the male loos, changing rooms etc? Idiotic, of course, to expect any discussion of the discomfort of those of both sexes whose religions mandate use of single-sex spaces or (more importantly, for me) those women and girls who have experienced or have good reason to fear male violence and predatory behaviour and need female-only spaces for safety and privacy.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 16/04/2025 19:25

Just seen a couple of sad/angry posts on my Facebook news feed.

One was by a gay guy expressing solidarity for his trans friends and saying, "Injustice makes the rules, courage breaks them."

Yeah, OK Henry. Using single sex spaces and services and competing in sporting categories for the opposite sex with zero regard for the impact that your actions have on the opposite sex is certainly breaking the rules. I don't see where the injustice is though. The rules in question were made by two Labour governments, both of which you voted for, and until this morning your lot swore blind that those rules said what you wanted them to say and not what they actually say. If the judgment had gone the other way then you'd be praising those same rules. And today's judgment took years of determination and expensive and exhausting legal action from a group of ordinary women who most certainly had no part in making the rules. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't allow a trans man into your bed so tell me why we should allow trans women into our communal showers?

The other was by a woman whose partner is trans, simply sharing a post by a Church of England group expressing shock and sadness about the judgment.

I really struggle with the fact that these people, who I know to be kind and sensitive and empathetic, can be so myopic about this issue. Why is it apparently not possible to support trans people without believing that the rights, safety and dignity of all women constitute acceptable collateral damage? Or even acknowledge that women's rights, safety and dignity are genuinely at stake here, and that the female rape survivor and the woman in prison for stealing money to buy drugs are not just evil and bigoted? I really don't get it.

mids2019 · 16/04/2025 19:27

Ch 4 news....Maya was brilliant and there was a trans barrister who was concerningly inarticulate for their profession. The trans response as usual is just to label everyone that sides with the law as oppressors branding our supreme court some sort of eight wing kangaroo outfit.

Outrageous for the presenter to end the interview saying many people disagreed with Maya without evidence and I thought it was partly pity for the barrister who couldn't argue a point fully or well.

OP posts:
ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 16/04/2025 19:28

PencilPleat · 16/04/2025 19:23

Steam coming out of my ears watching C4 news. And sounds like there’ll be two more TW discussing the ruling in addition to the one they’ve just interviewed, so three in total - and one woman. Why not interview women for whom this is fabulous news?

Because good news doesn't sell maybe? Prople being outraged is the media's favourite kind of people. (Clutching at straws...)

Ohyoudodoyou · 16/04/2025 19:28

god now my sibling is having a mantrum on FB about his' poor trans friends and colleagues' (fuck his female relatives hey?)

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/04/2025 19:29

Mumteedum · 16/04/2025 19:15

Wonder what will happen in practice to all those public policies like in universities that say people can use the bathroom they feel most comfortable with and not being questioned.

If I were still working in a university I would remove any such sign I saw. I would like to think I would have done this years ago when I was working there. It would have been a different matter, though, if I were a lot younger and trying to build a career.

socialdilemmawhattodo · 16/04/2025 19:32

Ohyoudodoyou · 16/04/2025 19:28

god now my sibling is having a mantrum on FB about his' poor trans friends and colleagues' (fuck his female relatives hey?)

Just another fucking bloke deciding what a woman is. Go non-contact, if you can.

Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 19:32

Ohyoudodoyou · 16/04/2025 19:28

god now my sibling is having a mantrum on FB about his' poor trans friends and colleagues' (fuck his female relatives hey?)

Mantrum!!!!!!! Never heard that before but I have a feeling I will be using it on a daily basis

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 16/04/2025 19:32

I have one TRA on my Insta and unsurprisingly is all over it. One post by Munroe Bergdorf and another how today’s ruling is going to decimate trans lives (yes really) and that anyone who is interested in the new Harry Potter series will be getting watched as JKR has financed this Supreme Court action and is the sole reason trans people will die after today.

I try and not use my insta for this stuff but I’m a wine down and resisting the urge to address how ridiculous she is. I’ve met her a few times and she seemed very nice and reasonable. I don’t get why these women have to make males front and centre in literally everything.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/04/2025 19:34

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 16/04/2025 19:25

Just seen a couple of sad/angry posts on my Facebook news feed.

One was by a gay guy expressing solidarity for his trans friends and saying, "Injustice makes the rules, courage breaks them."

Yeah, OK Henry. Using single sex spaces and services and competing in sporting categories for the opposite sex with zero regard for the impact that your actions have on the opposite sex is certainly breaking the rules. I don't see where the injustice is though. The rules in question were made by two Labour governments, both of which you voted for, and until this morning your lot swore blind that those rules said what you wanted them to say and not what they actually say. If the judgment had gone the other way then you'd be praising those same rules. And today's judgment took years of determination and expensive and exhausting legal action from a group of ordinary women who most certainly had no part in making the rules. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't allow a trans man into your bed so tell me why we should allow trans women into our communal showers?

The other was by a woman whose partner is trans, simply sharing a post by a Church of England group expressing shock and sadness about the judgment.

I really struggle with the fact that these people, who I know to be kind and sensitive and empathetic, can be so myopic about this issue. Why is it apparently not possible to support trans people without believing that the rights, safety and dignity of all women constitute acceptable collateral damage? Or even acknowledge that women's rights, safety and dignity are genuinely at stake here, and that the female rape survivor and the woman in prison for stealing money to buy drugs are not just evil and bigoted? I really don't get it.

I don't get it and I never have got it. Way back in the mid 70s I remember reading a profile piece in the Sunday Times magazine about Jan Morris, probably tying in to the publication of Conundrum, which was about Morris's transition and medical treatment. I was in my mid-teens and could make no sense of what I was reading. I've not really progressed from that point, tbh. I don't understand and never will why it's obviously delusional to say 'I identify as disabled/a toddler/black' when you're obviously not but stunning and brave to say 'I identify as a woman' when you're equally obviously not. Why this needs legal protection is a mystery to me.

teawamutu · 16/04/2025 19:35

MarzipanAndFrenchFancies · 16/04/2025 19:18

I hate listened to The News Agents today, I knew I would despise it. Lewis was so self righteous.

They blamed the politicians, they blamed the right wing media. They should blame themselves.

If the "left wing" media gave women a respectful space to discuss their views without being shut down or witch hunted, we probably wouldn't be here now.

Quite apart from you being spot on, which you are - this is impartial judges clarifying the law as it has always been and was always meant to be.

No politicians allowed or needed. No media, likewise.

The judicial oath specifies acting "without fear or favour, affection or ill will".

They must know this. Twats.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 16/04/2025 19:35

Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 19:32

Mantrum!!!!!!! Never heard that before but I have a feeling I will be using it on a daily basis

Mantrum for Guardian reading, bearded, lentil weaving fox murdering woke bros.

Trantrum for the India Willoughbys and Munroe Bergorfs.

Winterwonders24 · 16/04/2025 19:35

BaronMunchausen · 16/04/2025 19:18

On C4 news Maya Forstater has just explained that men are responsible for 98% of sex crime etc and we have separate prisons, changing rooms etc for that reason - to protect women. Cathy Newman then closed the discussion by telling her that many people would disagree with her!

Abd that's what we're reduced to: I don't like the facts you state,so I'll ignore you and call you mean/right wing. Christ,it's feeble

Dozer · 16/04/2025 19:37

The problem is (as it often is) men behaving horribly and committing crimes.

Men’s single sex facilities and services can be unsafe for transwomen, men and boys. That’s terrible and I sympathise.

The solution isn’t to make all facilities and services mixed sex, making women and girls less safe.

Better solutions would be third (mixed sex) facilities or actions to reduce male offending and tolerance of antisocial or homophobic / transphobic behaviour.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 16/04/2025 19:38

BaronMunchausen · 16/04/2025 19:18

On C4 news Maya Forstater has just explained that men are responsible for 98% of sex crime etc and we have separate prisons, changing rooms etc for that reason - to protect women. Cathy Newman then closed the discussion by telling her that many people would disagree with her!

The perfect rebuttal to that would have been, "Yes, well 50% of people have below average intelligence, Cathy."

fromorbit · 16/04/2025 19:39

The impact of the win is starting to happen. Looks like women might get all their sports back.

Telegraph
Football and cricket face lawsuit threat over ‘atrocious’ transgender policies
Supreme Court ruling that trans women are not women could raise questions over current policies of both the FA and ECB

https://archive.is/Ac05C

heathspeedwell · 16/04/2025 19:39

The sad fact is that I can list a whole series of names of men who identify as women who have assaulted women and girls in toilets, showers and hospital wards that should have been single sex.

Can anyone quote the name of a single transwoman who has been assaulted in a space for their sex?

Mumteedum · 16/04/2025 19:44

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/04/2025 19:29

If I were still working in a university I would remove any such sign I saw. I would like to think I would have done this years ago when I was working there. It would have been a different matter, though, if I were a lot younger and trying to build a career.

It's not about the signs and posters. It's about the policy shown to trans students I think. And I can't blame the young students for following what they're told. Our policy is still there on the student services site.

Students may use the facilities that match their self identified gender or use the gender-neutral facilities should this be preferred.

Nowimhereandimlost · 16/04/2025 19:44

Fucking GET IN!! so pleased about this.

sashh · 16/04/2025 19:49

Dozer · 16/04/2025 19:37

The problem is (as it often is) men behaving horribly and committing crimes.

Men’s single sex facilities and services can be unsafe for transwomen, men and boys. That’s terrible and I sympathise.

The solution isn’t to make all facilities and services mixed sex, making women and girls less safe.

Better solutions would be third (mixed sex) facilities or actions to reduce male offending and tolerance of antisocial or homophobic / transphobic behaviour.

The solution is not for women to solve. We have enough to do looking after women and girls.

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2025 19:49

So many teary moments today.

The first posts on here! Watching the women sing 'Women's rights are human rights'. Thinking we might get all our stuff back. Imagine all the egregious bullshit being rolled back ... women getting all our spaces and services back.

Oh, my word. Brings home just what we've been fighting for, all this time.

I may have had a glass of wine.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/04/2025 19:49

Mumteedum · 16/04/2025 19:44

It's not about the signs and posters. It's about the policy shown to trans students I think. And I can't blame the young students for following what they're told. Our policy is still there on the student services site.

Students may use the facilities that match their self identified gender or use the gender-neutral facilities should this be preferred.

I can believe it. One of the signs that things were getting very bad was when I was looking over a list of students in the medical school and saw one with a note that said 'NB identifies as non-binary, they/them pronouns'. I met that student later. Quite obviously female. In a medical school!

Dozer · 16/04/2025 19:52

I agree @sashh

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 16/04/2025 19:52

Just stumbled across John Swinney's statement on FB. The top responses are quite concerning - lots of people, mainly women, bemoaning the impact on trans people. And the usual crowd insisting that independence would mean the decision could be overturned. Sigh.

Boiledbeetle · 16/04/2025 19:53

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2025 19:49

So many teary moments today.

The first posts on here! Watching the women sing 'Women's rights are human rights'. Thinking we might get all our stuff back. Imagine all the egregious bullshit being rolled back ... women getting all our spaces and services back.

Oh, my word. Brings home just what we've been fighting for, all this time.

I may have had a glass of wine.

https://x.com/quirkathon/status/1912570471578509374?t=q6awzqE-1RCDbmcnWB_QwQ&s=19

To add to your tears, this is one of my favourite renditions of women's rights are human rights from a while back.

Supreme court ruling
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