Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

FWS v Scottish Ministers will be handed down Weds 16th April at 9.45am

1000 replies

IDareSay · 10/04/2025 11:13

The Ruling in FWS v Scottish Ministers will be handed down next Weds 16th April at 9.45am It will also be streamed via the UKSC website, so you can watch live.

https://x.com/ForWomenScot/status/1910272949350695371

https://x.com/ForWomenScot/status/1910272949350695371

OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
CriticalCondition · 16/04/2025 10:39

BBC Scotland correspondent on now. The full judgment is 87 pages long.

outofdate · 16/04/2025 10:40

Magdalen will be looking down at us with pride.

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2025 10:40

'As a matter of biology, only biological women can become pregnant'

MassiveWordSalad · 16/04/2025 10:41

🎉🥳👏

from one who mostly lurks and is in awe of all the women involved in making this happen, and the knowledgeable here who help me understand. Thank you, thank you, thank you ❤️

Most of the women I know irl have no idea what is happening.

fanOfBen · 16/04/2025 10:42

BeaAndBen · 16/04/2025 10:28

Is it too early to drink?

No, I have fizz.

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2025 10:42

'Additional provisions that require a biological interpretation of “sex” in order to function coherently include separate spaces and single sex services (including changing rooms, hostels and medical services) [211]-[221], communal accommodation [222]-[225], and single sex higher education institutions [226]-[228]. Similar confusion and impracticability arise in the operation of provisions relating to single sex characteristic associations and charities [229]- [231], women’s fair participation in sport [232]-[236], the operation of the public sector equality duty [237]-[244], and the armed forces [245]-[246].

The practical problems that arise under a certificated sex approach are clear indicators that this interpretation is not correct [247]. The Court rejects the suggestion of the Inner House that “woman” and “sex” can refer to biological sex in some sections of the EA 2010, and certificated sex in others. The meaning of “sex” and “woman” must be consistent throughout the EA 2010'

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 16/04/2025 10:42

PoshCoffee · 16/04/2025 10:03

Exactly my thinking. If this changes “gender for all purposes” but not sex in the Equality Act, what’s the point of the GRA?

The original reason for it was to allow a couple of men to marry if one of them got a certificate to say he was a woman. There were rulings from Europe that said not allowing transwomen to marry their male partners was discriminatory, and this was a way to make it legal without giving gay marriage the go ahead. It also allowed a man with a certificate to retire earlier and get cheaper insurance, but those perks have long since been removed.

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2025 10:43

'The meaning of the terms “sex”, “man” and “woman” in the EA 2010 refer to biological sex, as any other interpretation would render the EA 2010 incoherent and impracticable to operate [264].

Therefore, a person with a GRC in the female gender does not come within the definition of a “woman” under the EA 2010 and the statutory guidance issued by the Scottish Ministers is incorrect [266].'

SirChenjins · 16/04/2025 10:44

The law in this particular case is not an ass!! Amazing news - it's hard to comprehend the magnitude of this decision. Thank you to the fantastic women who have stood on the shoulders of all the previous campaigners over the decades to continue the fight for us.

CompleteGinasaur · 16/04/2025 10:44

I'd like to think every activist arsehole in the Civil Service, NHS, DEI and HR departments across the country will be hanging their collective empty heads in shame as they're forced to rewrite their misogynistic policies, but that would entail some grasp of reality, so I'm not sanguine..

JulesJules · 16/04/2025 10:46

I bet NHS Fife are really regretting fucking around and delaying the Peggie tribunal

EasternStandard · 16/04/2025 10:47

ArabellaScott · 16/04/2025 10:40

'As a matter of biology, only biological women can become pregnant'

Incredible. The relief I feel for my dd when I read this. Which is madness that we got here at all.

Slothtoes · 16/04/2025 10:47

If this is the end of self ID (and thank God for that) Is this also the beginning of the end of the GRA?

nauticant · 16/04/2025 10:47

Now on Woman's Hour.

Harassedevictee · 16/04/2025 10:48

Joanna Cherry on Sky News being very clear.

nauticant · 16/04/2025 10:48

It's Catriona Renton reporting. Who I think is one of the non-captured BBC people.

LizzieSiddal · 16/04/2025 10:49

Sky News have been pretty good.

Joanna Cherry is on there now.

PoshCoffee · 16/04/2025 10:49

I’ve just managed to watch a little of the ruling. I think the judge was saying when he quotes para 265 the GRA is an incoherent mess and if applied the way the SG wanted to it was then make the EA an incoherent mess.
So if I’ve understood correctly the onus is on the government and EHRC to clear up the incoherent mess and clarify the GRA - what it does or doesn’t do, or if like the other discrimination acts, it’s now obsolete because of the EA.

Note: these are just ramblings, I’ve no idea and have yet to read the judgement. Would welcome someone more knowledgeable to input

plinkyblonk · 16/04/2025 10:49

JulesJules · 16/04/2025 10:46

I bet NHS Fife are really regretting fucking around and delaying the Peggie tribunal

My thoughts exactly!

Villagetoraiseachild · 16/04/2025 10:50

I will feel quietly triumphant all day and hopefully long beyond this glorious day.
16th April 2025.

Justgoingforaweeliedown · 16/04/2025 10:50

Is anyone else meant to be working but getting absolutely nothing done for reading all the commentary online?!

CriticalCondition · 16/04/2025 10:51

Nuala can't bear to say anything herself so wheels in another journalist.

HalfWomanHalfHobnob · 16/04/2025 10:51

Justgoingforaweeliedown · 16/04/2025 10:50

Is anyone else meant to be working but getting absolutely nothing done for reading all the commentary online?!

Uh not me, definitely not

murasaki · 16/04/2025 10:51

Does this mean that Sarah's case re Brighton rape crisis will be settled in her favour? She's waited so long.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 16/04/2025 10:52

Thank heavens, thank heavens

genuinely a little tearful here. What an awesome piece of work from the formidable FWS

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread