Lesbian mistaken for trans woman in woman's bathroom in Arizona

[Christinapple]

https://www.advocate.com/news/lesbian-mistaken-transgender-arizona-walmart

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masculine-looking-cis-woman-confronted-by-cops-in-walmart-restroom-kalaya-morton-demands-justice-video/ar-AA1AdWpn

But I thought people "can always tell"?

It also led to the irony the only males in the bathroom were two male police officers who were notified by a store employee who mistakenly thought a male had entered the woman's toilets.

"In an alarming incident at a Tucson, Arizona Walmart, 19-year-old Kalaya Morton*, a Black cisgender lesbian, was confronted by two male sheriff’s deputies while using the women’s restroom, sparking outrage and a demand for accountability.
Morton, who identifies as masculine-presenting or a “stud,” recounted the humiliating encounter that occurred when a store employee erroneously assumed she was a transgender woman. The saga began innocuously enough: Morton had entered the restroom with her ex-girlfriend, who was kindly handing her a tampon— an act of friendship that, unfortunately, soon spiraled into something far more troubling. In an exclusive interview with The Advocate, Morton detailed her shock when the two deputies barged in, shining flashlights into the restroom stall.

“You have to get out of here. You have to come out. We need to talk to you.” Imagine trying to pee in peace, only to have the police storm in like it’s an episode of Cops: Restroom Edition.
“I’m still using the restroom. I’m sitting down, I’m peeing. What is the issue?,” Morton incredulously told the deputies as she sat there.
Now, while most people hope for a streamlined bathroom experience, Morton was treated more like a suspect than a bathroom user. The deputies apparently needed to crack the case of “Who Looks Like a Man in the Ladies’ Room,” a particularly absurd mystery, if you ask us."

@XXylophonic nailed it:
The GNC woman in question identifies as masculine, knows they present as masculine, and a store worker thought they were male and called the police.
What is the big deal here? If a woman deliberately presents as masculine, it seems ridiculous to complain when people mistake her for a male.
This isn't about people policing GNC women-it's about someone believing a male was in the female toilets and the police responding to that. As for the police waiting until she came out instead- that wouldn't be much help if it was indeed a male raping a woman in there

But it was a woman who called the cops wasn't it? So she obviously was a woman who couldn't tell

We don’t want any men in our spaces, and saying that non trans identified men will attack women anyway is a piss poor attempt at deflecting from that. Men are predatory towards women, unfortunately we don’t know which ones they are until it’s too late. TIM’s offend at exactly the same rate as men, because they ARE men.

Oh come off it, it's not one is it? There's been countless stories of this,.even several posters in this thread saying it happens to them and they're fine with it as a way to say other woman should brush it off.

But given how you wanna reply to that post how about you answer the question. How is it the fault of TRAs?

I’m 6ft, broad-shouldered, big hands and have a jaw you could crack nuts off. Despite the fact that I’m 36 FF, wear my hair long and do my makeup, I get asked to leave British women’s loos all the time. By women. Who apparently can’t tell that I’m female.

Worst bit is, I really don’t look all that much like a dude - I was always pretty enough to get guys…but for some reason women just don’t feel like I’m quite female enough.

Doesn’t happen in Holland where my family’s from as I’m a shortarse there, and everyone seems to have that kind of blocky face 😂

Well when we are scolded for not thinking a group of men who identify as transwomen should be in women's places (which is exactly what you've come on here to do to) forgive me for disagreeing with you.

If all males stayed out then the bad ones would stand out.

I can't help you if you don't understand that very simple point.

Burglars gain access to locked homes, it doesn't mean we leave our front doors open.

Your argument has no logic from a safeguarding perspective.

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic

If men all kept out of women's spaces, and none of us tried to "live as women", there would be no problem.
But how would that stop a woman who looks very masculine from being stopped and insulted?

It wouldn't. The person reporting would still have thought she was a man and would have reported her

Or ya know, it did

‘That’s just four but I could go on and on. So let’s stop pretending trans women are attacking us left, right and centre in toilets. They aren’t. Men are.’

I don’t know how to tell you this again, TIM’s are men, they offend at exactly the same right as men.

I told you I’d be disappointed ☹️

So the police should have ignored the call from Walmart that a male had gone into the female toilet because the police should have attended another unknown location where a male had gone into a female toilet but no third party called about it.
And people should not call the police if they believe there are males in female spaces because men will walk into female toilets and spaces to commit rape.

A+ for that gem of logic.

well quite - I don’t quite know at what point it was decided that ‘misgendering’ someone is literal violence and something that should be reported to the police as opposed to something that happens on the very odd occasion and which adults just laugh about

But how are you and @XXylophonic defining presents as masculine unless you're agreeing that there are gender stereotypes. What happened to people can dress however they like? When it's a GNC woman it's "dress how you like but expect us to police you for not confirming to female gender stereotypes"

Stats on that please?

0.1% of the population are trans women.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/genderidentity/bulletins/genderidentityenglandandwales/census2021#how-gender-identity-varied-across-england-and-wales

So if we are looking to keep women and girls safe hyper-fixating on the 0.1% of the population who are men identifying as women in completely nonsensical. They are a statistically insignificant threat. If we want women’s spaces to be safe we need to stop obsessing over what gender identity the man has because that is not the problem. Never has been.

Ofc you're disappointed I won't go off topic rather than ask you to actually answer a question 🫠

why does this happen to GNC women so regularly?

I don’t know that it does. Do you?

we need to stop obsessing over what gender identity the man has because that is not the problem. Never has been.

well yes, I couldn’t give a fuck what gender identity a man thinks he has, he’s a man so he can stay out of women’s spaces

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/#:~:text=MtF%20transitioners%20were%20over%206,general%20or%20for%20violent%20offending.

This ideology doesn’t work for women and girls, but I can see you’ve swallowed it whole and that is your perogative. I base my world view on facts and gender identity is a social construct that has no bearing on biological reality whatsoever, it is regressive and misogynistic. People can’t change sex, no one is born in the wrong body, trans women are men and trans men are women. People with genuine body dysmorphia need therapy not surgery or irreversible lifelong medication, that leaves them without sexual function and doesn’t actually change their sex because that is impossible.

A+ for lack of reading comprehension and ignoring the context. If you have read this thread you will see post after post from women who have been misgendered as men. If we call the police every time a woman who looks a bit too masculine for our liking goes into a women’s bathroom they will literally be doing nothing else but responding to those calls.

So instead of the media getting everyone into a frothing mouthed frenzy about trans women In women’s toilets we should instead look at the risks women ACTUALLY face when using public toilets. The woman in this article will have been using public toilets, unbothered, her whole life, but because we’ve suddenly decided trans women are lurking everywhere ready to attack at any moment she’s now getting the police called on her. Meanwhile where is the outrage at the massively bigger risk of us being attacked by cis men in our spaces? Why are we hyper focused on trans women? Do people actually want solutions that keep women safe? Because if they do simply saying trans women can’t use women’s bathrooms doesn’t cut it. It makes us no safer.

Catching up after brief hiatus. I stopped at this, so apologies if someone else has already addressed it, but that first paragraph... Huh?!

Person sees what they believe is a man going into the women's toilets, clocks that that represents a risk, and calls the police. The man turns out to be a woman.

Lucy appears to imply that that this could (hypothetically) absorb police resources by facilitating another (hypothetical) man to go into the women's toilets to attack another (hypothetical) woman.

My conclusion: calling out people who appear to be men going into women's toilets is a Good Thing and makes such attacks less likely overall.

Lucy's conclusion: calling out people who appear to be men going into women's toilets is a Bad Thing (in case they're women)... and... actually makes it more likely that such an attack may go ahead uninterrupted?!

🤔

Nope…

Please see my response above.

Ah Lucy, I'm glad you're still on the thread. I think you may have missed my post upthread so I'll repeat it below. I am genuinely interested in what you would suggest.

I'm interested in what you would suggest to ACTUALLY keep us safe in the toilet context being discussed. I'm interested in what your starting point would be?

@LucyMonth I quoted you earlier and made a comment and you liked it. Did you see what I wrote? You seem to contradict yourself.

This is my quote that you liked:
‘The perpetrators won't want to get caught so they will attack somewhere that's private.
The new style 'gender-neutral' toilets are visually and acoustically private cubicles. Because when people are worried about toilets becoming mixed sex the first thing that happens is they design them to be completely private.
We need single sex areas with cubicles off that have safety gaps ie. how single sex toilet blocks have been designed around the world for years.
And the single sex areas need to be enforced.’

You say ‘Individual toilets keep everyone safe. Saying trans women shouldn’t use women’s toilet blocks keeps literally no one safe.’

Which is it? Did you accidentally like my comment? The two both can’t be right.

It's the configuration used to denote the significance of the term beyond just a description of a colour. A linguistic mark of respect, essentially.

Because if they do simply saying trans women can’t use women’s bathrooms doesn’t cut it. It makes us no safer.

@LucyMonth In your opinion, does it make us safer to allow into women's bathrooms any man who wishes to enter?