Page 8 | Sandie Peggie facing internal misconduct hearing this week!

NotAtMyAge · 2025-02-16T23:26:54+00:00

Utterly mind-blowing to read that NHS Fife is pressing ahead with a disciplinary hearing ^this Friday^ against Sandie Peggie, despite the Employment Tribunal not having completed its work. Sandie isn't taking this lying down and has started separate legal proceedings according to The Telegraph, which also includes the stunned reaction of Michael Foran to the news in its report. [[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/ea111fbd4a9af5a6 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/ea111fbd4a9af5a6]] Archive version: [[https://archive.ph/lsriA https://archive.ph/lsriA]]

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 17/02/2025 18:38

DrMaxwell · 17/02/2025 15:29

BBC News - Changing room row nurse faces disciplinary hearing
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3d5d0x97vyo

I noticed the BBC haven't used DU pronouns in the article, they have used SPs, also the article seems factual and balanced. Is this a turning point?

It better be a turning point. I am sick of paying for a license fee to hear women being institutionally abused by an organisation that has actively supported paedophiles.

SirChenjins · 17/02/2025 18:47

Excellent news that the disciplinary hearing has been rescheduled - too bloody right. I thought the Reporting Scotland item was very fair, but hugely disappointing (though not surprising) that Murdostoun Fraser’s question on the issue won’t be heard at FM Questions this week. Hopefully he’ll push this with Swinney and Gray - this is the reality of the SNP’s appalling policies coming back to bite them on their arses.

SirChenjins · 17/02/2025 19:00

*Murdo

socialdilemmawhattodo · 17/02/2025 19:03

NotAtMyAge · 17/02/2025 18:16

I've just seen that the BBC have updated their latest item on the case to say that Friday's hearing has been rescheduled at Sandie Peggie's request.

"The BBC has learned that NHS Fife has scheduled a conduct hearing to examine allegations against Ms Peggie of misconduct, failures of patient care and misgendering Dr Upton. The potential outcomes range from no case to dismissal.
The hearing was originally due to take place on Friday but has been rescheduled at Ms Peggie's request.
In response, her legal team are planning further action in the form of another tribunal claim."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3d5d0x97vyo

https://x.com/tlitb/status/1891545354350276633

Edited

Yes but I didn't like the reporting on the reasons the tribunal was deferred. Failed totally to include R1 and R2 not providing all documents required under a court order.

AnSolas · 17/02/2025 19:29

IwantToRetire · 17/02/2025 17:59

I doubt that any board has daily input into what Management are doing.

ie paid staff are paid to carry out the work that a Board gives an overall aim, direction.

So depending on how often a Board meets they might find that in between 2 meetings a whole shit show like this has taken place.

However in delegating paid to staff to carry out the daily functioning of the organisation, it is also likely that individual board members will have specific responsibility for example finances, personnel etc., and that the relevant paid member of staff would contact that board member to alert them to a potential issue that might have repercussions on the reputation of the organisation - or is on a legal border line.

So the board could be held responsible for employing people who are either incompetent or using their position to impose their personal views or whatever.

But in any case, given the publicity this Board must be aware that there is an issue and may well have asked for an up date and not wait to a regular report for the next Board meeting.

Although of course if in the past the Board has agreed a policy that specifically instructs employees to further a TWAW agenda then obviously they are directly responsible.

Although you would think after the ERCC court case, they wouldn't do this. As far as I know in that case there was no ruling that said ERCC (and therefore other groups) had to accept that biological females are women and TW aren't. What they were told is they cant impose this on users and employees, and cant bully them to believe this.

However as we have seen despite Roz Adams winning her employment case about having the right to be honest to users, not many if any organisations in Scotland have made any changes to how they work or their position on TW.

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IwantToRetire I agree* *the board have no need to be involved in the daily inputs but should get reports

But in this case the events were christmas 2023 and she was suspended in April (?) 2024
And by October 2024 both parties had started legal submissions to the ET

https://www.nhsfife.org/about-us/nhs-fife-board/

So they are held every 2 months and papers include staffing issues as the last pack paper.
The the staff report has no pending litigations section and no report to the board [(edit) in the sub-section specific reports passed to the board in the sep nov reports ]
(I only did a quick scan so may have missed the process of reporting if any)
(I did not spot where they were told of patient litigation either)

The jan 2025 pack has a learning objective page 296 (?) With a recomendation of the CEO having an obligation to inform the relevant director of litigation

SinnerBoy · 17/02/2025 19:40

MarieDeGournay · Today 12:00

Oh wait - did I say 'natural justice'? I don't think we're in Kansas any more, Toto, are we?😡

Well, no.... But I bet Upton O'Goode has a fabulous pair of ruby slippers.

Size 13.

Pluvia · 17/02/2025 19:52

popefully · 17/02/2025 16:27

It was wrong in this case and completely uncalled for.

It held up the GC movement in this town because quite a few women felt if she was supporting the T there must be good reason for them to, too. It was only when it became know that this woman's son had transitioned that things made sense and women felt free to go with their GC views.

I'd argue that critical thinking is even more important when it's something someone 'like yourself' is advocating.

Others might have come to the conclusion that because her son had transitioned that she knew more about it and was probably right. In either case, it doesn't affect whether the position being put forward is true and fair, or not.

I'll always argue for clear thinking over 'belief by association'!

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Ah, the certainty and confidence of those who've come very late to the battle and know it all!

Binglebong · 17/02/2025 20:03

I would love to know if there was a WFT call from the court to human resources this afternoon.

AnSolas · 17/02/2025 20:11

Binglebong · 17/02/2025 20:03

I would love to know if there was a WFT call from the court to human resources this afternoon.

Errr
The courts tend to do WTF with handcuffs and a squad car 🤷‍♀️

CuddyCuddler · 17/02/2025 20:45

Faffertea · 17/02/2025 17:52

Thanks I was unaware of that.
Are they employed directly by health boards then in the same way as hospital doctors?

Probably just as well I’m south of the border….

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In my area they are NHS employees yes. I guess it may be different in other parts of Scotland though, who knows!

popefully · 17/02/2025 21:07

Pluvia · 17/02/2025 19:52

Ah, the certainty and confidence of those who've come very late to the battle and know it all!

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What? Sorry, I don't understand.
I've been hear for the best part of a decade, if you were referring to me.

(And I've regularly, though infrequently, argued the same point throughout about unhelpful speculation - including when someone found a photo of a woman on a board/senior team in another case, decided she looked a bit mannish and started insinuating she was a TW and would therefore be biased - just appalling behaviour).

Anyway in the interest of not derailing further, I'm happy to agree to disagree, but deciding you know what someone thinks because of their relatives etc, or what they look like - and telling others to believe that too - is not something I'd put up with from either 'side' as relevant.

BunfightBetty · 17/02/2025 21:10

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 17/02/2025 18:38

It better be a turning point. I am sick of paying for a license fee to hear women being institutionally abused by an organisation that has actively supported paedophiles.

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I am sick of paying for a license fee to hear women being institutionally abused by an organisation that has actively supported paedophiles.

In a nutshell.

Couldn't have put it more succinctly. This is it.

Who do they think they are?

SirChenjins · 17/02/2025 21:45

CuddyCuddler · 17/02/2025 20:45

In my area they are NHS employees yes. I guess it may be different in other parts of Scotland though, who knows!

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In NHS Highlands and Islands they will employ GPs directly (usually a recruitment and retention thing) but the majority of GPs across Scotland are not employed by local Boards.

CuddyCuddler · 17/02/2025 21:58

SirChenjins · 17/02/2025 21:45

In NHS Highlands and Islands they will employ GPs directly (usually a recruitment and retention thing) but the majority of GPs across Scotland are not employed by local Boards.

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Oh well, there you go! Just my bit then!

Hmmsomething · 17/02/2025 22:07

Seems to be the normal way companies and their legal advisors respond to ladies raising a grievance with possible employment tribunal. I witnessed five ladies called to disciplinary procedures whilst they were on maternity leave/fresh back from maternity leave after issues were raised with their pay/pay rises compared to men doing the same job/less complex jobs. Not all had raised a grievance but clearly all five then witch-hunted because their pay wasn't what it should be compared to the men. It seemed clear the legal people had instructed them to get rid of them all. The worst part though was that the directors just went along with it showing no remorse. Computers were searched for tiniest little errors made years earlier. Settlement agreements were handed out with gagging orders for some. The equal pay act turned out to be completely unfit for purpose and worse. To really twist the knife, they used a female solicitor (traitor). So... I'm not at all surprised about the disciplinary proceedings. It's not right, employment laws seem useless.

SidewaysOtter · 17/02/2025 22:20

Fuck me backwards, this makes the plot of The Crucible look lighthearted.

Hmmsomething · 17/02/2025 22:22

Hmmsomething · 17/02/2025 22:07

Seems to be the normal way companies and their legal advisors respond to ladies raising a grievance with possible employment tribunal. I witnessed five ladies called to disciplinary procedures whilst they were on maternity leave/fresh back from maternity leave after issues were raised with their pay/pay rises compared to men doing the same job/less complex jobs. Not all had raised a grievance but clearly all five then witch-hunted because their pay wasn't what it should be compared to the men. It seemed clear the legal people had instructed them to get rid of them all. The worst part though was that the directors just went along with it showing no remorse. Computers were searched for tiniest little errors made years earlier. Settlement agreements were handed out with gagging orders for some. The equal pay act turned out to be completely unfit for purpose and worse. To really twist the knife, they used a female solicitor (traitor). So... I'm not at all surprised about the disciplinary proceedings. It's not right, employment laws seem useless.

Strangely, I wonder whether if this happened today, instead of years ago, with all the new laws surrounding gender, the Directors (all men) could have got around the gender pay discrepancies by all declaring themselves as females (at least temporarily) instead. Probably would have saved them lots of legal fees and maybe all the new mothers wouldn't have been dismissed (and could have continued working for less pay than the men for doing the same work/more complex work).

Enough4me · 18/02/2025 01:27

Sometimes I wonder if we would create a loop if we accept the label cis and demand for cis facilities. The 'non cis' facilities then become unisex (which now is happening).
If cis had separate spaces then those who label themselves trans will then want the label cis. It shows that this is always binary and isn't about supporting reality (inclusion) it's about meeting a demand to change access for facilities for a group.

Ladyof2025 · 18/02/2025 06:04

The law in this matter is 100% clear - in a workplace females and males toilets must be separate. Upton has no GRC, but even if he had one, it does not override the toilet law.

Therefore, how on earth can NHS Fife defend this case?

Misgendering is not a crime. Again, Upton has no GRC so he has not even "transitioned" in the eyes of the law. How, then, can she be sacked for it?

AnSolas · 18/02/2025 06:48

Hmmsomething · 17/02/2025 22:22

Strangely, I wonder whether if this happened today, instead of years ago, with all the new laws surrounding gender, the Directors (all men) could have got around the gender pay discrepancies by all declaring themselves as females (at least temporarily) instead. Probably would have saved them lots of legal fees and maybe all the new mothers wouldn't have been dismissed (and could have continued working for less pay than the men for doing the same work/more complex work).

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^^ Is a real thing because big listed companies have to include that in their social reporting and the drive for "DEI purity" was being pushed and its the money bit imo which kicking off the US powerbase not girls getting kicked off swim teams.

From what I can see legally thats what happened in Ireland with a GRC women will loose all legal rights to pregency cover and specific health care, abortion was introduced after the GRA.

The bill for period products was progressively arranged to exclude the word woman so bloody woman is replaced as bloody people in law.

So what one may say.
Well reader as a woman of any age you got the right now you need to prove you are a bloody woman.

AnSolas · 18/02/2025 07:11

Enough4me · 18/02/2025 01:27

Sometimes I wonder if we would create a loop if we accept the label cis and demand for cis facilities. The 'non cis' facilities then become unisex (which now is happening).
If cis had separate spaces then those who label themselves trans will then want the label cis. It shows that this is always binary and isn't about supporting reality (inclusion) it's about meeting a demand to change access for facilities for a group.

That has been done and dusted

We just need to pee
Men are violent.
And some men need to take shelter in womens spaces /loo
Women you cant object everyone needs to pee and you can never tell
Women you cant object as you have a mix sex bathroom at home (twitter back in the day had someone do a thread asking for home addresses and there were multiple memes anyway)
Women you cant object or look for additional mix spaces as people can tell and you are outing the man to male violence.
Woman you are still objecting you must be violent and so must be excluded from womens spaces ( this idea she is asking for it by speaking is used by some TRA justify phyical violence )
So we are all agreed objecting women get new provision which will be women only.

Now its funny to see the logic develop as Nice-we-just-want-to-pee have locked themselves into being nice and cant argue to exclude women from public life the start.

So the WomanWoman class gets split into
bad WomanWoman (terf as a punishing word) and
good CisWomen.

DeanElderberry · 18/02/2025 08:55

Enough4me · 18/02/2025 01:27

Sometimes I wonder if we would create a loop if we accept the label cis and demand for cis facilities. The 'non cis' facilities then become unisex (which now is happening).
If cis had separate spaces then those who label themselves trans will then want the label cis. It shows that this is always binary and isn't about supporting reality (inclusion) it's about meeting a demand to change access for facilities for a group.

If Upton (a medical doctor!) could claim to be a biological female he most certainly could claim to be 'cis' if that seemed like a handy way to access and humiliate vulnerable half-naked or even fully naked women. And since there's no such thing as 'cis' no one could say him nay.

DeanElderberry · 18/02/2025 09:00

Not that anyone seems to want to say him nay anyway. Very well connected. Top Top, if you meet someone whose parents decided to name them Gift-of-God Blessing be very afraid.

Enough4me · 18/02/2025 09:02

True, even accepting the term cis as a way to be a separate group wouldn't stop TRA/MRAs from wanting to be in the same group at choice. If DU wanted to, he could walk into men's facilities tomorrow, the ultimate 'I can be anyone, do anything' mentality.
He could have a feeling a man moment and his fans would congratulate his flexibility.

AnSolas · 18/02/2025 09:14

Enough4me · 18/02/2025 09:02

True, even accepting the term cis as a way to be a separate group wouldn't stop TRA/MRAs from wanting to be in the same group at choice. If DU wanted to, he could walk into men's facilities tomorrow, the ultimate 'I can be anyone, do anything' mentality.
He could have a feeling a man moment and his fans would congratulate his flexibility.

One of the big banks have that

A man who is male promoted to a highish level decided midlife he wanted to bring his whole self to work. She likes high heels and emos gothic (not)chic as opposed to the traditional boot and suit. The job gave him 2 ids as she only works parttime and job shares with him