Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mumsnet listed as Anti-Trans

882 replies

Hoosemover · 08/02/2025 17:21

there a list of organisations and Mumsnet is on it. Along with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

x.com/twisterfilm/status/1888255119449268674?s=61

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/02/2025 22:24

If I’m introducing you to my partner and I mention he’s trans what would that indicate to you?

That your partner is female but "identifies as a man".

JanesLittleGirl · 12/02/2025 22:45

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9

I have read your posts on this and other threads. I understand that you love your partner at every level. That is wonderful. I also understand your fear that somehow the partner that you love and causes nobody any harm will suddenly be invalidated and have to justify themself in every individual interaction.

I do not think that anyone on this thread is proposing that your partner should be exposed to that life of shit. If your partner is successfully navigating life today without causing any offence then they should be able to do the same into the future. If blokes are happy to share toilets with them what has it got to do with women?

The only teeny, tiny concern that I have is that iirc your partner is some sort of first responder. Is your partner sensitive to the alarm that a person that they are responding to may feel if they realise that the hirsute, buff responder is actually female?

HipMax · 12/02/2025 22:50

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 12/02/2025 20:04

Because I was curious if you believed that trans men and trans women exist.

It seems you disagree with the labels?

What a weird question. Do you think I'm going to say, no I don't think they exist, I think your partner is imaginary?

Why are you pretending to not understand? You know as well as I do that your partner exists and is a woman. You can call her he and him if you choose to, you still know your partner is a woman.

Trans really only means "wants to be or pretend to be the sex they are not". You know that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/02/2025 23:01

What @HipMax said.

Sparklybutold · 12/02/2025 23:04

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 12/02/2025 22:11

I’m not being stubborn I was just wondering if the trans identity was recognized.

Wondering if being a trans man or trans woman would still recognized as a separate group, or if they are removed and it’s simply men and women.

I'm curious where you think your partner should be sent if they went to jail. Would you assume that for their protection, a female prison is the right place because they still have a vagina? Or do you think they should go to the prison they identify with, despite the inherent vulnerabilities?

You don't have to answer this as I don't want it to seem like a gotcha moment—but if you choose the first option, it should highlight why SSS (Single Sex Spaces) must exist. Denying them risks serious harm, especially for women.

Looking through your posts, there seems to be a struggle with language, despite its simplicity and long-standing use by humans. Language was what initiated all this, pushing boundaries, mostly women's boundaries.

Of course, trans people exist, but asserting that this is part of some 'gender identity' is baseless. Gender is nothing more than a social construct, which can be extremely reductionist. It's interesting you say your partner is burly (I don't think that was the word you used, but I don't want to scroll through the thread again) as though this equates to 'being a man'. In my opinion, trans has done more damage by reintroducing gender stereotypes. With trans people needing some type of social or medical intervention to manage their concept of self, it is a disorder that needs and deserves help.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 00:35

JanesLittleGirl · 12/02/2025 22:45

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9

I have read your posts on this and other threads. I understand that you love your partner at every level. That is wonderful. I also understand your fear that somehow the partner that you love and causes nobody any harm will suddenly be invalidated and have to justify themself in every individual interaction.

I do not think that anyone on this thread is proposing that your partner should be exposed to that life of shit. If your partner is successfully navigating life today without causing any offence then they should be able to do the same into the future. If blokes are happy to share toilets with them what has it got to do with women?

The only teeny, tiny concern that I have is that iirc your partner is some sort of first responder. Is your partner sensitive to the alarm that a person that they are responding to may feel if they realise that the hirsute, buff responder is actually female?

Hi.

First let me say I really appreciate what you wrote and I appreciate you acknowledging how much I love him. 💕

He’s one of the best at what he does. I have zero concerns about him at work.

There is also a large population of queer people he deals with and that offers a lot of comfort for people who are struggling.

He’s truly exceptional at his job. The team is incredibly lucky to have him.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 00:40

Sparklybutold · 12/02/2025 23:04

I'm curious where you think your partner should be sent if they went to jail. Would you assume that for their protection, a female prison is the right place because they still have a vagina? Or do you think they should go to the prison they identify with, despite the inherent vulnerabilities?

You don't have to answer this as I don't want it to seem like a gotcha moment—but if you choose the first option, it should highlight why SSS (Single Sex Spaces) must exist. Denying them risks serious harm, especially for women.

Looking through your posts, there seems to be a struggle with language, despite its simplicity and long-standing use by humans. Language was what initiated all this, pushing boundaries, mostly women's boundaries.

Of course, trans people exist, but asserting that this is part of some 'gender identity' is baseless. Gender is nothing more than a social construct, which can be extremely reductionist. It's interesting you say your partner is burly (I don't think that was the word you used, but I don't want to scroll through the thread again) as though this equates to 'being a man'. In my opinion, trans has done more damage by reintroducing gender stereotypes. With trans people needing some type of social or medical intervention to manage their concept of self, it is a disorder that needs and deserves help.

I strongly believe in single sex spaces. I would want him in the woman’s prison but he would be sent to the men’s.

I don’t think burly equals manly. In terms of things like washrooms I’m just pointing out he wouldn’t enter a woman’s because it could be jarring. I find larger muscular men intimidating so I recognize he’d be seen as a potential threat.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/02/2025 00:51

In the U.K. your partner would probably be in the female estate, but I think you're abroad, aren't you?

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 01:00

Yes. I’m in Canada.

BeaAndBen · 13/02/2025 01:16

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 12/02/2025 22:11

I’m not being stubborn I was just wondering if the trans identity was recognized.

Wondering if being a trans man or trans woman would still recognized as a separate group, or if they are removed and it’s simply men and women.

Transmen are a subset of women. Transwomen are a subset of men. Each wishes to be perceived or to present as is culturally typical for the opposite sex. So there is no contradiction in being a transman and a woman at the same time.

The single thing every woman throughout history and across the planet has in common is her female body. Everything else can vary; it's our sexed bodies that make us women. Transmen are a part of that, sharing biology with the rest of us.

A trans identity is a valid part of how someone behaves and presents themselves for those that have them, just as other types of identity are valid. It doesn't change anyone's sex. Most of the tiomne sex doesn't matter when dealing with people, but when it does I would expect your partner to be in the female estate.

We can respect the trans aspect of your partner without believing they should be referred for a prostate exam, for instance, because that's sex based and not reliant on gender expression.

Whereabouts in Canada are you? I spent a lot of time there at one point in my life. The Great Lakes is the area I know best. Wonderful part of the world, just beautiful.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 01:21

Aw that’s so nice to hear! I’m in Toronto but I grew up on Vancouver island and then lived in Vancouver for years.

I love it here. 💕

BeaAndBen · 13/02/2025 01:45

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 01:21

Aw that’s so nice to hear! I’m in Toronto but I grew up on Vancouver island and then lived in Vancouver for years.

I love it here. 💕

I know it well and have friends there! Great city. I bought DH a new Blue Jays hat at Christmas this year because the one we bought at the Skydome many years ago had finally fallen apart.

I loved the islands in the summer. I miss it sometimes, but my current home city is great too.

EasternStandard · 13/02/2025 06:46

I would want him in the woman’s prison but he would be sent to the men’s.

How would someone in that position be safe?

Would they share a cell with a male in Canada?

Helleofabore · 13/02/2025 06:47

I think that there really does need to be an important understanding about the language expectation that seems to be one of the sticking points here. And I think it then becomes blockage point.

I think we, in this discussion, are all in agreeance that sex exists as the primary categorisation of humans. And that female people with or without transgender identities are part of that category.

No person then with a transgender identity can be said to disappear out of the world if others don’t perceive them as they wish to be perceived. They are real people. With real lives rich and full of many interactions.l with other people everyday

I think most agree that people can present how ever they wish, they can dress however they want. They can use whatever terms of reference they want. That is their choice and everyone should have it.

I think the issue partly comes down to the degree to which those who have an identity, any identity, get to dictate how others see them. And obviously some of the components of our overall personal identities are more important than others. But there does seem to be an aspect that some of those with a gender identity feel the need to control how others see them and interact with them.

Most of the time, I doubt there is an issue at all. Because why should there be an issue, that aspect of their identity is irrelevant to that interaction. Or it should be unless a person really does have a prejudice with a group of people.

There are then the moments when it does matter. When sex matters. And if a person who has a gender identity respects those situations, then that seems to work. There of course, are others who insist that they should have access when they should not and we get court cases as we see with Sandie Peggy and Beth Upton.

But so far, if those with gender identities respect those provisions, there isn’t really much dissension in opinions on the surface, I think.

Where there is disagreement is that some people believe that others in society should act as if that identity is material reality. This is where it gets tricky because bluntly, no other person in the world should be expected to believe something that is real when it is not.

It doesn’t matter even how sincerely felt the identity is, how dedicated people are to that identity, no matter how many changes to their body they have had, it is still an identity that doesn’t change the sex category of that person. And that at times they will be treated as the sex they are not the identity they are.

And language is a part of this. Some people need their language to reflect the material reality of what they perceive. And for laws and policies, having clear language that cannot be misinterpreted is imperative.

So who gets to dictate the language people use to describe others? Within the boundaries of society, no one unless the government has laws that limit language. Yet, it seems that a group of people believe that they should be able to control other people’s language when it comes to how they are described. Of course, they don’t have that right to control the language people use.

I think much of this discussion has been about language and who controls it, combined with whether people also should control how others perceive them.

The answer, of course, should be no one controls the language or thoughts of others.

So, if a person wants to present themselves however they wish, however makes them happy, if they respect the needs of others then I can see little disagreement from
others. It is when people are told that they have to think and speak as if someone’s identity is material reality when it comes to the sex a person is that the disagreement is clear.

Because why should anyone control another’s thoughts and speech? Or even expect to?

Yet, this is what is being done by a group of people who use shame through name calling such as ‘transphobic’ and ‘anti-trans’.

Helleofabore · 13/02/2025 06:50

EasternStandard · 13/02/2025 06:46

I would want him in the woman’s prison but he would be sent to the men’s.

How would someone in that position be safe?

Would they share a cell with a male in Canada?

It would be horrendous. I would question if even a vulnerable male unit would be enough protection.

HipMax · 13/02/2025 08:30

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 00:35

Hi.

First let me say I really appreciate what you wrote and I appreciate you acknowledging how much I love him. 💕

He’s one of the best at what he does. I have zero concerns about him at work.

There is also a large population of queer people he deals with and that offers a lot of comfort for people who are struggling.

He’s truly exceptional at his job. The team is incredibly lucky to have him.

You didn't at all answer the question.

Helleofabore · 13/02/2025 08:31

Let’s not forget that Beth Upton over the past week has been calling Sandie Peggy a ‘bigot’. Very precisely and very deliberately.

Why? Because Sandie Peggy said that Upton should not be using female single sex spaces.

Upton is using language as part of the way Upton punishes people for not believing that Upton is the female person as claimed.

When the bar is set so low for the use of words that used to have shock value because they described extreme opinions and behaviours, it is hard to imagine language cycling back to where these words used in hyperbolic ways will reclaim their shock value but obviously it will. Still, in the meantime these tactics are being used aggressively by activists.

HipMax · 13/02/2025 08:32

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 00:40

I strongly believe in single sex spaces. I would want him in the woman’s prison but he would be sent to the men’s.

I don’t think burly equals manly. In terms of things like washrooms I’m just pointing out he wouldn’t enter a woman’s because it could be jarring. I find larger muscular men intimidating so I recognize he’d be seen as a potential threat.

You strongly believe in single sex spaces but spend your life with a person that not only doesn't, but who tramples all over single sex spaces?
How does that work?

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 09:52

Tramples all over them? That’s quite the hyperbole.

Single sex spaces to protect women.

He uses the men’s bathroom in order to not distress women.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 09:56

HipMax · 13/02/2025 08:30

You didn't at all answer the question.

Yes he’s aware, and no it’s never been an issue because he’s really good at his job.

EasternStandard · 13/02/2025 10:13

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9 is what you outlined below really the prison policy in Canada?

How does it work?

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 10:34

EasternStandard · 13/02/2025 10:13

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9 is what you outlined below really the prison policy in Canada?

How does it work?

It is because he’s listed as male. I imagine he could petition for a transfer.

Thankfully he gave up his illustrious career as an art thief. 😏

ErrolTheDragon · 13/02/2025 10:39

I would guess Canadian transmen are motivated to be exceptionally law-abiding!

EasternStandard · 13/02/2025 10:48

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9 no I don't mean your partner I mean generally

I don't think we place females in male prisons no matter what

Is Canada different on this?

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 13/02/2025 13:17

EasternStandard · 13/02/2025 10:48

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9 no I don't mean your partner I mean generally

I don't think we place females in male prisons no matter what

Is Canada different on this?

Because his documents say male I believe he would be.