Mumsnet listed as Anti-Trans

[Hoosemover]

there a list of organisations and Mumsnet is on it. Along with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

x.com/twisterfilm/status/1888255119449268674?s=61

I’m much happier having let go of all that crap.

I can imagine that is the closest any non trans person will come to understanding how trans people feel, physically not matching how you feel inside and what you know you are and it is very distressing.

I also have PCOS. I've just finished plucking my chin. I can relate to the not feeling pretty/feminine/womanly.

What I can't relate to is the quote above. Men who feel like they should be women have no experience in being a woman. They are relating purely to stereotypes centred in the male gaze. They cannot feel how is like to be a woman. They can't match to what a woman feels inside. It's just not something they have or are able to experience.

And those of us with a female endocrine condition are not somehow failed women that provide a gotcha for men who don't feel comfortable in their own skin.

We're just women with a female endocrine disorder.

And yes, a big part of wanting to be a real woman is wanting to be pretty, because a big part of femininity is being pretty.

You could say the same thing about men, that a big part of masculinity is being handsome. Certainly, the way in which the David Beckhams and George Clooneys of this world are treated compared to the Jack Blacks and Jim Careys would support that assertion. Wanting to be goodlooking is a universal human desire.

I can imagine that is the closest any non trans person will come to understanding how trans people feel

I see your "I can imagine" and raise you my experiences of phantom penis and phantom testicles.

I wouldn't describe myself as transphobic. I am tolerant of all sexual stuff, but I do object to being described as a 'terf', or whatever, and told I must believe things I don't believe - I can't ignore the scientific fact that you can't change your biological sex. And it is oppressive to women to be told otherwise - by biological men. If this is mean spirited, then I am mean spirited.

Of course, girls want and like to be pretty and desirable and feminine. I did all that and in my youth I was very, very pretty. It wasn't a huge advantage in that I attracted a lot of sexual attention and so I got abused, including by my father.

These days, having lost my looks, I'm happy to keep a low profile.

'And I also stand by people telling trans people how they feel, and that it is wrong, is the root cause of most of the transphobia that is seen here.'

I can safely and confidently say that no male person can say that they live their lives as a female person because materially, they simply cannot do this.

No male person has ever had to navigate society's reaction to people who have a female body to start with. They can say they 'know' but they most certainly do not. They can only ever say they have experienced life with a male body, or a male body that has undergone extreme modification.

Hormones and surgery do not make a male body a female body.

So, no. I can feel very confident in saying that a male person saying they live as a female person and feel like a female person is not materially correct.

They are living as a male person who has undergone extreme body modifications and who reacts to navigating society as they conceptualise a female person would. Only ever that.

Women with PCOS are women.

"Ugly" women are women.

Hirsuite women are women.

Fat women are women.

When Russian soldiers committed genocidal mass rape against Ukrainian women, telling them that preventing Ukrainian births was why the soldiers were raping them, the Russians didn't pick only the pretty ones.

I agree.

Arguably, trans-'men' aren't men unless some of them rape biological women. But they can't properly rape in a war context unless they can impregnate.

Maybe sex change will happen.
The day a male becomes a female scientists will have invented a way to reverse time to the point of conception and changed the sperm entering an egg to change the sex of the first cell of a new human. The previous person will then never have existed to know that they successfully are not the sex they denied being.
Hasn't happened yet and what are the odds...? 🤣

They need a transporter beam that will reduce the body to atomic particles and reconstruct it with different instructions. I mean, the members of the Enterprise can do, so it must be a coming technology.

My partner presents as a man, is treated as a man, but is biologically female.

I don’t have an issue with protecting women’s spaces and keeping “trans women” out of women’s sports.

I don’t like when people on here insist everyone can tell he’s a woman and insist on calling him my girlfriend.

Or that he isn’t capable of doing his job because he’s mentally unwell.

That I find transphobic.

@EmpressaurusKitty

Kittens are really difficult to sex. You are looking at a selection of tiny holes and bits. I had two apparent queens, and realised one was a tom when he attempted to mate with his companion.

This was when the kitten was about 9 weeks old. It was really obvious what sex he was.

I don’t have an issue with protecting women’s spaces and keeping “trans women” out of women’s sports.

You're as much of a "transphobe" as the rest of us.

By "man" (presents as a man) do you mean a physically male person, or do you mean a person of either sex who has some traits that make them a man? If so, can you give any example of such a trait?

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9 I’m sure your partner is capable of doing the vast majority of jobs. There are a few where I’d question the suitability of a trans candidate. The trans identifying male who told women to reframe their trauma in prefer to accept men in their rape crisis centre would be a classic example where being trans undermined his suitability.
I would also question suitability for working in some mental health environments. If the patients are struggling to distinguish between reality and fantasy, someone whose presentation was potentially ambiguous would add real confusion. The last thing someone needs in that situation

@myplace People of all genders and biological sexes can experience rape and sexual assault, so services should reflect this and be inclusive. I agree that part of that service offer should be the opportunity to access services in a single sex environment. However just because someone is trans doesn’t mean that by definition they have no place in the rape crisis sector.

I don’t understand your second point at all. Would you advocate excluding everyone who looks a bit different? People with a disfigurement or disability? Or unusually tall or short?

Yep.

No, I advocate people being able to access transparent, appropriate support. Not rape support from someone purporting to be a woman but is actually a man who identifies as a woman.

I don't think there's anything wrong with androgynous or cross-dressing. Women have been able to wear what was traditionally male dress code for like half a century now without any fuss. Men wearing skirts etc still get some pushback, mainly from other men (homophobia mainly it seems).

But you have again taken the dramatic 'everyone can tell' route.

No. Not everyone 'can tell', at least not immediately. Some people will never be able to tell. Some people might be able to tell straight away.

However, what about the people who can tell. Do they have to pretend that they cannot tell? Do they have to fully support a philosophical belief that your partner is male in any way? Why does you and your partner's philosophical belief in your partner's identity take priority over someone who wishes to use accurate language?

Do you believe that unless someone fully complies with your philosophical belief that they are transphobic? Yet, you don't fully comply to some male people's demands to support their philosophical belief in that you don't believe that they are female for specific instances. Aren't you then transphobic?

Or do you get to be the arbitrator of what is transphobic and what is not?

I certainly think males who deliberately lie to bypass an occupational requirement to get a job in a rape crisis centre are unsuitable for the job -

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/resources/ERCC-Review-Report-FINAL1-.pdf

And who then turned the service into one which "failed survivors" because of an all consuming focus on an ideology which not only didn't allow single sex spaces but which actively turned women away if they didn't parrot the acceptable mantras and dictats.

And told those survivors to 're-frame their trauma'.

I think they can if they are XXY, so cat Klinefelter’s. Rare but not impossible. In humans men/boys with Klinefelter’s are very tall, often have learning and coordination problems.

We have a tortie and she is already very challenged in her learning, so I’m not sure if a male tortie would/could struggle with cat tasks more?

That would be a failure of service, just as it would if the employee made everything about race or disability or religion.

It’s transphobic to highlight these exceptional circumstances to cast a shadow over all trans people.

There’s a thread in the Litter Tray about a male tortie at the moment.

I fostered a female tortie a couple of years ago & she was probably the most intelligent of my fosters - the only one who came close to working out how to open the food drawer!

Is safeguarding in general transphobic?

Is it androphobic to say that biological males, regardless of how they present, shouldn’t work in women’s rape crisis centres? That obviously doesn’t mean they’re excluded from centres that serve males.