I refuse to use the term Trans Woman? Am I guilty of Harassment?

[eulittleb831]

I read this brilliant piece by Josephine Bartosch who properly avoided the use of the misrepresentative term "Trans Woman" in the article and instead opted for "trans-identified male" to describe a.......... male identifying as trans. In doing so is she, like myself, guilty of "harassment" for not feeding into the trans-activist narrative and refusing to refer to a man as a woman, or any form of woman which might upset "Beth/Brian/Frank" whatever his name is?

thecritic.co.uk/describing-reality-is-not-harassment/

Really? I thought they called themselves actual women while we are the lesser cis women.

There are plenty of terms which don't use either male or woman

Individual
Person
Fan
Customer
Service User
Contact
Friend

(To name but a few, lots more depending on context)

I very rarely have to use a gendered terms to refer to anyone in the 3rd person.

It’s great to see the even stronger pushback that’s now happening on this whole harmful and nonsensical ideology.

I don't see a problem with the term trans woman. I do have a problem with being told that trans women are actual women and that they can have access to women's spaces. Pick your battles I think. Trans woman makes sense as a category and many trans women are not predatory men so why offend them for the sake of it.

No it’s not harassment. No such thing as a trans women .

I think alot of people on hearing trans woman think it means a woman who says they're a man so to save all confusion everyone should just be called what they are. Outrageous of me to say so I know😂

But they can offend 50% of the population calling us cis right?🤨

It’s not 50% who are offended. Very few have a problem with it. I’m a cis woman, and have no problem with that.
You don’t get to speak for other women, only yourself.

You've never said 'see that man over there/go and ask the man something/go give the money to the lady'?

Come on.

trans woman
Or
Transwoman

There is a reason the space was added.
It changes a classification of men to a sub-class of women

A man is the same as a

Predatory [space ]woman
Blond [ space ]woman
And the HR fav Black [space]woman

A trans woman is the same as a

Predatory [space ]woman
Blond [ space ]woman
And the HR fav Black [space]woman

I think the term trans-woman is fine. It's a full descriptor that tells you everything anyway.

"The boner of contention..." 🤣

Excellent article.

There are lots of discussions on trans issues and the importance of language elsewhere on the platform. This is legal matters and the question was on harassment. I am not a lawyer but have some experience in this area and know how hard it can be to prosecute even in the face of overwhelming evidence of harassment.

There is actually alot of discourse on this. It seems to be it could be under the 2010 equality act as it could violate their dignity and cause an offensive environment. (I know the come back will be they are creating offensive environments and violating my dignity... But thats not the question being asked).

A lot depends on the context you are using it in, if it is directed against an individual, what other actions accompany it and your relative position of power.

Using the term while taking part in discussions about the issue then no. Shouting it at your coworker and insisting on calling them a male name when theyve said they are called something else, then yeh it will form part of the pattern of harassment.

Trans identifying males are no type of woman. I'm offended by the suggestion that they could possibly be. The whole situation is now so ridiculous.

Also, any man who claims he is a woman and expects to access women’s spaces is predatory.

Nonsense. This is downgrading what "predatory" means.

Occasionally, though my mother taught me never to refer to people in that way. "That police officer" "That teacher" "That shop assistant" is better. Honestly how often do you need to talk about anyone in the 3rd person when you know absolutely nothing about them except guessing whether they are male or female based on their clothing?

Why should anyone be bullied to not identify someone by what they observe - when women are
coerced to not identify potential threats to their safety, to trust their intuition then they will be in more of a vulnerable position than they are now. In legal terminology it is misrepresentation of sex. Sex is immutable.

I agree with this.

..when you know absolutely nothing about them except guessing whether they are male or female based on their clothing?

Their clothing?

When both sexes habitually wear jeans or other trousers, T shirts, jumpers, hoodies, padded coats?

Looking at their body shape and proportions and their gait and listening to their voices, in aggregate, will almost always tell you their sex.

The problem with using ‘trans women’ alone, is that many people don’t understand it. This has been documented.

As in a significant number of people think trans women are biological women. This is undoubtedly why the trans lobby used this language in the first place. A more accurate description would have been trans man (transitioning male), but that doesn’t have woman in it so no good at all.

I now prefer to use ‘trans woman - a man who identifies as a woman’. Long winded but descriptive and accurate, avoids confusion (trans identified male is still not clear to some casual readers of a flicker of news).

Eg. Trans women (men who identify as women), are campaigning to let themselves enter women’s sports competitions.

Wordy and annoying but that’s what I’m going with for those reasons.

I have no problem referring to a man as a trans woman if that's his preference, just as I'll call someone by their nickname or chosen name if that's their preference. What I won't do is call him 'she' or refer to him as a woman, and as he's a man he should get the f out of single sex spaces. I'm sure, what with being a woman and all, he'll fully understand how uncomfortable that makes us feel and he won't want to put another woman in that situation.

Can you only use clothing while attempting to correctly sex a human?

If you were at an accident and it was two police officers in the same generic outfit, blond, clean shaven, stab vest, yellow coat and a hat would you not be able to sex them to a high degree of sucess.

I think the compound noun transwoman is fine. No one thinks that a seahorse is a type of horse, or indeed that a woman is a type of man. I do not use the adjectival construction "trans woman" as it implies a woman with the quality "trans". Which a transwoman is not.

Can you give me one instance of a seahorse going into a stable and saying it has hooves and four legs?