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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

is mumsnet a safe space for me?

1000 replies

rexrabbit · 04/02/2025 21:04

would you say mumsnet these days is a safe space for a non-transphobic lesbian with children to hang out?

OP posts:
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12
SidewaysOtter · 05/02/2025 09:18

Ingenieur · 05/02/2025 08:59

If it walks sideways is it just a temporarily-embarrassed crab?

I dunno, don’t crabs have big clacky hands? I suppose it could just identify as a crab…

SidewaysOtter · 05/02/2025 09:19

NoBinturongsHereMate · 05/02/2025 08:43

On the contrary - they have bodies with distinct fronts and backs (not to mention eyes, pedipalps, spinettes etc). If the body is completely round (like a harvestman) it's not a spider.

I try not to get too close to them tbh Grin

ClockingOffers · 05/02/2025 09:20

rexrabbit · 04/02/2025 21:15

there seems to be a lot of vitriol going around about non het non cis stuff here

You need to post in English as I don’t speak your pretend language. Soz!

DeanElderberry · 05/02/2025 09:21

Phthia · 05/02/2025 08:39

I think you may be deceiving yourself there.

Indeed, I'm here and while it may not be strictly a 'phobia' I very much dislike, and will resist, the cocktail of enforced sex-role stereotypes, homophobia and misogyny that is genderism.

Eketahuna · 05/02/2025 09:25

ShredHead · 04/02/2025 22:36

I remember when Cif was actually Jif.
So is that cis Cif?

In New Zealand, it still is.

dovetail22uk · 05/02/2025 09:26

rexrabbit · 04/02/2025 21:04

would you say mumsnet these days is a safe space for a non-transphobic lesbian with children to hang out?

Absolutely not, I'm afraid. I saw a thread yesterday saying they didn't agree (or similar phrasing) with gender identity. Most of the thread agreeing with them. Like it affects any of them. Utterly disgusting. You are not safe here and I'm really sorry. I'd love to find a safe space online but it's not here.

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2025 09:30

dovetail22uk · 05/02/2025 09:26

Absolutely not, I'm afraid. I saw a thread yesterday saying they didn't agree (or similar phrasing) with gender identity. Most of the thread agreeing with them. Like it affects any of them. Utterly disgusting. You are not safe here and I'm really sorry. I'd love to find a safe space online but it's not here.

How can the absence of belief in a theory be 'not safe'?

Genuine question, I am curious.

DeanElderberry · 05/02/2025 09:30

@dovetail22uk My not believing that it is right to enforce homophobic and misogynist sex-role stereotypes does not in fact make you (or anyone else) unsafe.

It doesn't even stop you from being homophobic and misogynist and stereotyped if that is how you choose to be.

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2025 09:32

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2025 09:30

How can the absence of belief in a theory be 'not safe'?

Genuine question, I am curious.

Do you mean in the way that a religious person may view an atheist? I don't know many religious people that consider atheists discussing their non-belief as 'not safe'. Even the more evangelical ones, although granted I don't know how they talk about me behind my back.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 05/02/2025 09:34

dovetail22uk · 05/02/2025 09:26

Absolutely not, I'm afraid. I saw a thread yesterday saying they didn't agree (or similar phrasing) with gender identity. Most of the thread agreeing with them. Like it affects any of them. Utterly disgusting. You are not safe here and I'm really sorry. I'd love to find a safe space online but it's not here.

Yet here you are.

To believe in something you should really be able to define and explain what it is exactly. No one who believes in gender identify, especially over on that thread, can do that, preferring to shout ‘echo chamber’ instead of presenting a logical, coherent explanation.

Yes, it does affect a lot of mainly women when faced with people who believe this thing called ‘gender identity’ overrules material reality, and when people use this undefinable identity to go into spaces not meant for them.

letwomenexist · 05/02/2025 09:35

dovetail22uk · 05/02/2025 09:26

Absolutely not, I'm afraid. I saw a thread yesterday saying they didn't agree (or similar phrasing) with gender identity. Most of the thread agreeing with them. Like it affects any of them. Utterly disgusting. You are not safe here and I'm really sorry. I'd love to find a safe space online but it's not here.

they didn't agree (or similar phrasing) with gender identity

swap out "gender identity" for "sex role stereotypes" (because that's what it is)

so they didn't agree with sex role stereotypes

what's wrong with that?

JustBitetheKnotsOff · 05/02/2025 09:36

That's interesting, Arabella. It suggests that a different viewpoint might reduce one's belief.

I'm polite and noncommittal with friends who are gender believers as with those who are religious believers. I'm starting to feel that this is the coward's way, though, as I've seen both sets of beliefs do positive harm to people I care about.

(Harm = gender surgery; lack of contraception; prayer instead of medical treatment)

DeanElderberry · 05/02/2025 09:36

or convince very young women to get unnecessary damaging hormone therapy and high-risk cosmetic surgery

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2025 09:36

I'm also not sure how someone can 'agree' or 'not agree' with 'gender identity'.

It's a term that's grown out of theory on gender from the latter half of the 20th C, one can discuss it and criticise various aspects of it, but it's a bit like 'not agreeing' with, say, semiotics, or structuralism.

Feminists have been discussing and critiquing 'gender' and associated theories for a long time, now.

dovetail22uk · 05/02/2025 09:36

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Lyn348 · 05/02/2025 09:36

If you need people to constantly validate you OP then I suggest you work on your self esteem.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/02/2025 09:37

You are not safe here and I'm really sorry.

In what sense is she "not safe"? Hyperbole.

dovetail22uk · 05/02/2025 09:37

Lyn348 · 05/02/2025 09:36

If you need people to constantly validate you OP then I suggest you work on your self esteem.

Wow this is so toxic.

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2025 09:37

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Oh, I see. 🙄

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 05/02/2025 09:38

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Thanks for that coherent, logical, response.

Point proven 🤣.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/02/2025 09:38

You are mental.

Right. #bekindalways

Kucinghitam · 05/02/2025 09:39

dovetail22uk · Today 09:36

"You are mental."

Hmm. That's not very #BeKind language, is it?

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2025 09:39

Can the gender identity true believers please send someone with better arguments and an ability to discuss them?

TIA.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 05/02/2025 09:39

dovetail22uk · 05/02/2025 09:26

Absolutely not, I'm afraid. I saw a thread yesterday saying they didn't agree (or similar phrasing) with gender identity. Most of the thread agreeing with them. Like it affects any of them. Utterly disgusting. You are not safe here and I'm really sorry. I'd love to find a safe space online but it's not here.

Gender identity doesn't affect anyone except those who believe in it.

Changing society and the law based on gender identity affects every single one of us.

It condones the sexist belief that men and women's minds are just different as a fundamental state not a result of living in a sexist society.

It imposes on every single woman (or man) a redefinition of her- or his- self as someone with a certain type of mind rather than someone with a certain type of body.

It destroys the protections and opportunities created to support female people dealing with living in a sexist and
sometimes outright misogynist society.

It invalidates women speaking about and politicising their experience of being female.

It encourages people to believe they need to adjust their body to match a feeling in their head and then gives them harmful medical treatments in an impossible attempt to do so.

It allows dangerous men access to places women are vulnerable.

It allows sexist and arrogant men to not just speak over women, but to take our place and speak as us.

It requires women who do not see themselves as people of wommamy mind but simply as people of female body to accept intimate care and sharing vulnerable spaces with male people even though they have neither body nor gender in common simply because the man's assertion that he is like her is given credence over her assertion that he is not.

Oh hang on though, there is someone who isn't affected. Male heirs to primogenic estates or titles don't lose out because they specifically remain the real male heir regardless of whether they or their siblings change gender. So that's nice for them.

TWETMIRF · 05/02/2025 09:40

Most of the world considers a lesbian to be a female who is exclusively attracted to females. This is considered transphobic by people such as the OP who think that lesbians should be happy to suck dicks if said dick owner says he's a woman.

Luckily most people would recognise this as a highly homophobic view but those in the bubble that OP lives in refuse to see anything wrong with harassing anyone that disagrees with them.

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