Actual gender critical left

[JumpingPumpkin]

I read this on their FB page today. I'm under no illusions as to whether Trump is genuinely supportive of women's rights (I don't believe he is), however I don't see how any of this was going to get resolved with the insane left in power.

There was no indication that any rollback was going to happen with Biden/Harris. I'm just wondering if anyone can comment on this as I do feel Trump is going to be a disaster in other areas.

"Ruth Serwotka:

"I'm not disappointed or shocked to see a large number of women who claim to be 'gender critical' embrace Trump and his billionaire oligarchy. It was written in the politics of many of them years ago.

Repeatedly I and other socialist feminists pointed out the ultra right wing drift, the myopic, endless focus on one thing to the point of banality, the reactionary evolution towards the Proud Boys and the shift towards upholding of traditional gender norms that implies.

Many of these women have become the enablers of a new age of reaction in America and elsewhere. They're currently on Musks social media platform cracking stupid jokes about the world not being in the grip of lunatics. They're celebrating as a victory that Trump has declared the existence of only two sexes (as if he's a deity).

There is zero focus on the fact Trump knows for sure which is the better sex, or his complaint that malign feminine energy, otherwise known as feminism, has brought America to its knees. No worries for our GC's. Nothing to see. Let's say we've won!

Well, biological sex is real for sure, but women have won nothing with Tumps election and could well lose everything, especially reproductive rights.

As matters progress I'm interested to see whether the "GCs" will unravel in the face of mass deportations of women and children, or enforced child bearing or the loss of freedom for lesbian and gay sexuality. Will they admit their hapless, clueless niavety or will they finally go down as red hot fascists in the end?"

I agree with them that Trump is terrifying and aligning with the far right is hardly a recipe for women’s rights being upheld. I’d imagine most moderately left wing or centrist GC women would agree. It’s hardly a radical position to think Trump is not the answer.

And one of the response from a founder member of ACGL was:
"Bev is a ding-dong and is normalizing fascism to protect her ego."

That's awful. Bev is lovely and has had loads of crap thrown at her by TRAs over the past few years. This kind of stuff just makes me sad.

Exactly. Almost feel bad for making it more public.

But all I am trying to say is this group is totally hypercritical.

And in fact I am sure it would be of huge benefit if a genuinely left group of women was formed to discuss, campaign for women's sex based rights.

I think some of us thought WPUK would be a sort of middle of the road left group.

But at some point, as someone on facebook posted in response to their last post, they decided their followers just weren't politically pure left enough, so were all dumped.

In fact there are so many disenfranchised left feminists on FWR, maybe someone should start of group.

Or at least a thread that isn't bogged down by the antics of AGCL eg

How to campaign for women's sex based rights as left wing women

And yet one EO has GCs pretending a far right US administration has provided the new bedrock of women's rights. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious. Ruth S and co are supercilious arses without a doubt, but GCs patting themselves on the back because they're only in the foothills of fuck around and find out mountain is quite the delusional bollocks. You got in bed with actual fascists cos you thought you were being pragmatic, but you got played to leverage their power, as was always going to happen. Now Trump et al is going to ride roughshod over everything, but hey, at least you get to bully gnc women out of the women's bogs and bring up African toilet twinning as an excuse. Well done.

And yet one EO has GCs pretending a far right US administration has provided the new bedrock of women's rights.

Absolute bollocks.

Please provide any evidence where anyone has said anything even approximately that position.

That's exactly the same sort of sweeping statement quoted in the OP.

Most women are adult enough to see that a policy they agree with is not the same as supporting the source of a policy.

Honestly talk about ground hog day.

This is just dragging this thread back to where it started.

Well done.

What exactly is the complaint here? That we think it's a good executive order?

Are we supposed to pretend we think it's a bad one because Trump?

Or are we just failing to make enough snide remarks about him and those who vote for him while discussing it. Are we not centring Trump enough in this discussion of women?

And if you think Trump is so bad, why are you making it so easy for people to prefer his policies? If your side can't come up with better policies than Trump, what does it say about them?

And if you think Trump is so bad, why are you making it so easy for people to prefer his policies?

This keeps getting asked

If your side can't come up with better policies than Trump, what does it say about them?

Okay, that's slightly badly phrased - sure, the Democrats do have many better policies than Trump.

But the problem is that they have many catastrophically worse policies, with this at the top of the pile.

If you're in a competition with Trump, and want to beat him, voters should not have to be weighing up the catastrophically bad policies on each side.

You should be making sure you don't have any catastrophically bad policies, so he can't make you look like idiots.

This was an epic fail from those who claim to oppose him.

😆 I'm not a GC. I feel no compulsion to find excuses for the shitstorm you've all been foolish enough to tag along with, whether you're one of the big brain MN regulars or the WPUK lefties.

What exactly is the complaint here? That we think it's a good executive order?

Are we supposed to pretend we think it's a bad one because Trump?

Yeah, I don't understand this either. What's the 'appropriate' response that they want here?

Yet again, what are we supposed to do here? Denounce a policy that we know to be sensible and important because it comes from the big orange man?

WaitingForTheDoubleDecker You got in bed with actual fascists ..
Who exactly is this 'you'?

It looks like you think you are addressing people who voted for Trump - you don't seem to be aware that [a] the majority of posters on here didn't have a vote in the US presidential election and [b] if you read a broad selection of posts here and elsewhere that mention Trump - even the ones that praise two specific EOs - as often as not the post contains something like 'I despise Trump' 'I disagree with everything else Trump has done' 'I hate everything Trump stands for but even a stopped clock is right twice a day' [or once a day obvs if its working on the 24 system]. There was even a very intemperate 'I hate Trump and wouldn't care if he died..

Not exactly a Trumpian lovefest, is it?

Getting into bed with 'actual fascists'? as opposed to pretend ones or something? 'African toilet twinning?' sorry WaitingForTheDoubleDecker , your post doesn't make much sense.

so you believe in gender stereotypes and that men with long hair and dresses are in fact women and if they want to attend any group for women they are welcome

that's good to know

It would seem so

let’s hope trump doesn’t announce he believes gravity is real too

I could see that coming whilst waiting for a bus 😂😂

i am left wing, do not in any way shape or form like trump, but think these EO as with all the other things going well for the erosion of genderism, are a good thing.

Cannot stand the misuse of the word facist it boils my blood especially on this particular day.

And in what sense has anyone here 'got into bed' with Trump? I doubt anyone on this thread had a vote.

Am I an MN regular and does that mean I have a Big Brain, I've always wanted a Big Brain, it's better than having a big head, especially if it's one of those ones with lots of space between the ears. 😊

It's a bit like claiming that having seen a pearl earring in a giant turd, that the GC crowd want to sit in an Olympic sized swimming pool of turds. It's just absolutely ridiculous.

I like the trains to run in time, does that make me an adherent of Mussolini? No, of course not.

Over educated idiots like RS, who've never had a proper job may have some laudable aims, such as fair pay and conditions, but on other things, they're all a bit People's Poet, aren't they?

Subscribing to some mad shit and being so utterly convinced of their own moral rectitude that they can never, ever concede, or compromise. They have far more in common with the Tangerine Felon than they could ever understand.

As someone who seems to quite frequently post on other threads about not allowing derailers to hijack a thread by responding to their deliberate provocation, I should maybe have heeded my own advice.

Note to self: Dont feed the trolls.

It would be more difficult to claim that the roll-back of trans overreach in the US is going to lead inevitably to the loss of freedom for lesbian and gay sexuality if we weren't stuck with the LGBTQ++ acronym.

As has been pointed out many many times, the T was not only 'force-teamed' with the LGB, but it has smothered it. An official recognition that there are only two sexes is not a problem for lesbians and gays, and will hopefully result in greater freedom for lesbians.
LGB✂T.

Yar boo sucks and shove it up yer [redacted] Ruth you absolute clown.

I just want to say thanks for all the interesting responses on here, good to know some more background about AGCL.

I just find those guilt by association accusations sometimes throw me and I wanted to hear others' thoughts.

@JumpingPumpkin I know what you mean, my daughter asked if i was going to vote tory at the election, i had to explain to her that tribal loyalties are not an independent way of thinking and that i could agree with others of differing religious or political persuasions without betraying my own values. And further more, most humans have good and bad qualities.