Can we talk about bisexuality?

[Pluvia]

Just that really. I'm a lesbian, one of a number seeking to rebuild new lesbian and LGB networks after our established communities and events and hang-outs and culture have been trashed by the TQIA+ brigade.

Lesbians and gay men are feeling really beleaguered. We've seen almost every sphere of gay and lesbian life infiltrated by 'queer', trans and spicy straight people all using the events and groups we've founded for their own purposes — mainly of validation. Pride has been taken over by the T. Our cafes, pubs, bars, all gone.

I think a significant number of gay and lesbian activists are finding it increasingly difficult to work out where bisexuality fits into all this. I'm in a number of different LGB groups and this issue has started to crop up in them. People who join describing themselves as bisexual and wanting to get involved in helping rebuild their local LGB communities turn out to be in long-term, stable heterosexual relationships. Some of them for 20+ years. Some bi people in such relationships want to involve their straight partners on the basis that although the partner is straight, they are in relationship with a bi person who isn't — but who, to the outside world, looks straight.

Does it matter? Well, if you're in a heterosexual relationship you're unlikely to experience the everyday (usually minor) moments that most of us who are out still encounter. Things like the need to come out regularly to people who assume that we're in straight relationships, the slight but still palpable 'othering' that sometimes comes when people realise they're talking to someone who isn't just like them. Sometimes it's much more pointed. And if we hold, say, an LGB club night, so that LGB people can associate without the straight gaze, should we allow bisexuals to bring their straight partners? Doesn't that negate the intention of the event?

Bisexual people who are living in a heterosexual relationship have the security of being undercover. They may not see it like that, of course, but they pass as straight. I'm pretty sure that one of the bi women who's involved in one of the groups I'm in is a straight woman who bases her bisexual identity on the fact that she had a relationship with a woman while at university, many years ago.

I don't know if there's a solution to this. I think lesbians and gay men are much more cautious around the dangers of self-ID and identity politics than they ever were. How are other groups handling this?

I'm bisexual, married to a man and have dated women in the past. I've never felt part of the community, but even less so now I'm in a heterosexual relationship. I wouldn't feel the need to attend an event with my husband, because I'm in a straight relationship and I feel it's nothing to do with me. I can see why others may be upset by people who do. Being bi isn't something that dominates my thoughts, it's just there in the background. I'm still allowed to identify as bisexual without being in the community.

News of it would get out. I like not receiving hate male§ and not being hounded out of my job.

§ I'm leaving that typo because it's very apt.

Okay then accept if no one wants this enough to set it up, it will not exist.

Groups tend to come together when there is a clearly identified need. I suspect the need for a gender critical bisexual group is just not high enough. You could still get involved in LGB alliance which seems more bisexual people and straight allies than lesbian and gay people.

I totally agree with this.

I'm bi and my attraction to women far outweighs my attraction to men.

But I've also exclusively been in relationships with men.

Straight people have real trouble understanding how I KNOW I'm bi if I've mostly been with men (same way you know you're not!), and gay/lesbian people think I'm a charlatan.

Queer culture is meant to be all about inclusivity but it seems like you're saying unless you fit neatly into either the gay or lesbian box, you're not welcome?

If you and pp above, feel more attracted to women than men... why are you with a man?

Just out of curiosity
I am lesbian so I do often wonder, why you haven't seeked a relationship with a woman over a man?

Just totally it of curiosity

If you are more into women rhan men, does your partner know and not feel they are holding you back?

Bisexuality is different to being gay or lesbian. Each of the LGB faces different challenges. Yes, we can and should all support each other, but that doesn't mean that our challenges are the same.
I'm bi and frankly think there is still a lot if homophobia within the bi community. Why on earth shouldn't lesbians be allowed to have their own spaces without having to deal with men turning up just because they're married to a bi woman?
Similar to the issues with the trans community, there are issues in the bi one and the answer is to address those and discuss them instead of getting defensive and shooting the (often LG) messenger.
For example, I think that unicorn hunting (where a couple seeks a bi/lesbian woman just to play out threesome fantasies) is exceedingly common and beyond inappropriate when aimed at lesbians. I know from my lesbian friends that they're often approached by male/female couples on dating apps. How is this different from a man doing it?
We need to call out the crap in our own communities instead of calling genuine issues biphobia.

Sorry, didn't intend to be accusatory, should have used an exclamation mark. I was just surprised that I didn't know, given some of the people and hung out with and places I went to. I was aware of the sex-positive lesbian movement in the 90s and the Rebel Dykes and all the leather and SM stuff but not aware that there was a bi-scene too. You live and learn!

Right. There you are, then. Leave it to the Ls and Gs...

This is where bisexuality has so much ambiguity... Happy to be part of lgbt community, but will act straight to appease society or use it as a mask... in this posters case.

L and G don't have the choice of this. Bisexuals who are fully out and declare it don't either.

However many have stated in this thread that they are living heterosexual lifestyles, so whqt percentage are out and proud bisexuals?

I think this is where it lies with lesbians and gays, we have to be out, as its miserable being in the cLoset.

Probs going to get slated, but if aren't willing to make a stand like lesbians and gays coming out, which means being out the closet and proud in many situations.... then this is where the problem lays.

I know not all bisexuals are like this, but being open and proud would do a lot for the cause.

It seems many are living heterosexual lifestyles and don't actually understand the prejudices of being in a same sex relationship.

I've seen the claim that the LGB Alliance is mostly straight people, which has been debunked - but is it mostly bisexual people? I wasn't aware of that.
So more B than LG then? I'm genuinely curious - anything to back that up?

Genuinely - if in a 'straight' relationship - how does one do this (outside immediate family) in a way that doesn't sound like a bid for attention; as a pp put it, wanting to 'sound special'? In 99% of social interactions, there's no reason to mention sexuality.

They are predominantly lesbians and gay men with a smaller proportion bisexual.
Under Survey tab here:
https://lgballiance.org.uk/resources/

There in lies the problem, there is no right or wrong really onlycpreferences.

Some preferences in how to behave annoy and alienate some groups, to appease others.

No one from any side is going to be 100% happy.

Many lesbians might not be happy that I am a low key lezza. I will get married, but most my mates are straight and apart from being in a same sex relationship, I don't do anything else like going to gay bars or pride anymore.

So even being a lesbian will annoy some more 'die hard' lesbians.

There will be no pleasing everyone.

I really understand your dilemma but I think there's a danger of excluding bi people as a sort of 'drawbridge up' mentality because of the TQI++ invasion of LGB spaces. To be honest I think many bi women especially are more attracted to women than we realised ourselves but we got married to men because reasons.

If my marriage ends I would be just as likely to seek a female partner as a male partner and I wouldn't want to feel excluded from a community where I might find a loving partner.

Queer culture is meant to be all about inclusivity but it seems like you're saying unless you fit neatly into either the gay or lesbian box, you're not welcome?

What do you mean by queer culture? Is that LGBTQIA+ culture, where anyone could call themselves queer or bi? Of course, within L +G circles there are lots of people who find the world queer offensive. It was all too often the last word a gay man would have yelled at him before he was punched or worse. Sensitivity to the LGB isn't something the TQIA+ crowd is celebrated for.

If you're talking about lesbian and gay culture, it certainly hasn't traditionally all been about inclusivity. For centuries gay men and lesbians had to be extremely careful. There were gay bars in London where I wouldn't have dared set foot: not all gay bars are woman friendly. The Gateways, the most famous lesbian club in London in the 70s and 80s, was extremely careful about who was admitted and turned women away if they doubted they were genuine.

I have often said to myself, if my marriage ended, I would prioritise women if seeking another partner, having been 'deprived' of that for so long, but I fear many lesbians would reject me for the reasons mentioned on this thread.

The reality is that in the physical sense I have never had much to offer and what little I ever had has long since sagged and bagged itself away to nothing, so if I find myself in that situation, it will be, as it always has been, a case of finding the right person, someone who will love me for who I am, not what I look like, and who I can love, respect and enjoy spending time with, irrespective of their sex.

My partner and love of my life was with a man before me,

Many lesbians have dated of slept with men, myself included. I realised I was a lesbian in my early 20s.

I wouldn't swap my soon to be wife for the world.

So I don't think that would put women off, we actually understandcthe patriarchy a lot and the struggles.

So if you do want to be with a woman, it's something definitely attainable if hetero life isn't for you.

Depends if you feel strongly enough to stick with your marriage or want to find a same sex relationship and explore that life.

You shouldn't put it off because you think women wouldn't understand though.

Life's too short to be unhappy.

There are plenty of older women who leave long term marriages with men and start dating women. Its not that unusual.

@SquirrelSoShiny at the point you want a female partner, then join groups. Very few women would want to date you if you are still with a male partner though. Its more the polyamorous and kinky communities that would welcome someone looking for that.

I think a lot of women get trapped in that tolerable level of unhappiness loop with the patriarchy... whether straight or bi.

Some of my friends state they would love to be in a same sex relationship, as they deem things to be more equal.

I think they just have partners that need to kick up the backside lol.

They are equalish with my partner and I, sometimed one is more proactive than other..m however sometimes patriarchal and matriarchal stereotypes can be and are in play in same sex relationships too.

A bisexual person does not need to socialise at LGB events with a straight partner, it's really bad form. I had relationships with women in the past, but I'm in a long term domestic partnership with a man. I don't join LGB groups or events or services as I have the entire straight world available and I don't experience homophobia. Trans activism has led people to think it's all about them and their precious identity.

Now I'm feeling selfish for not supporting LGB in rebuilding. What can I do? Btw there was always a tension with the Bi, before the alphabet people.

Yes. To be clear I've no intention of joining groups or seeking another partner as I'm currently married and monogamous!

My point is that it's worth being careful about inadvertently sending a message that women who are genuinely bi don't feel unwelcome because they're not 'lesbian enough', especially if they are coming out of longterm heterosexual relationships.

They aren't lesbisn though..mm they are bi.

Why would a bisexual need to be lesbian enough?

Unless they are a lesbian and realise in later life, in which, unless a Doyle, would be welcoming.

There are lots of valid reasons. For me, my first (intense) love was a girl in my early teens, and then a fumbled exploration with another girl, also the same young age.

But my home life was chaotic, and I was taken into care after being raped. I was a teenage runaway, when what I really wanted and needed was stability.

I found that with a lovely man, and went the conventional route, though I never lied to him him about my attraction to women. My lesbianism was absorbed into a conventional heterosexual life of home and children, and we maintained that loving environment until I was widowed. I had crushes over the years, but just like heterosexual monogamy, I never acted upon them, though I told my DH about the crushes and he accepted that was just my tendency to get emotionally attached, even if not openly, to certain women, and it didn't threaten our bond at all.

I'm now quite old, and know I will never enter into another relationship with a man, but I would love the opportunity to connect with women who are attracted to other women, even if it's too late for me. I have good women friends, but none who appear to feel like I do.

It's refreshing to learn there are other women like me on this thread, but also sad to hear that I might not be welcomed by other lesbians, just because of choices I made for very good reasons in my early life.

I think you would be accepted, if people don't accept you... then their loss.

I met a woman in Thailand in her 60s who had came out late in life, was living the life with all us young uns in ourb20s and 30s, she was awesome.

It's never too late, only barriers are in your mind, if can find right circles of people.

Problem is assholes exist in all forms of life lol but tend to be the minority.