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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 21/01/2025 18:51

Purpose.

Ideologues who deny the biological reality of sex have increasingly used legal and other socially coercive means to permit men to self-identify as women and gain access to intimate single-sex spaces and activities designed for women, from women’s domestic abuse shelters to women’s workplace showers. This is wrong. Efforts to eradicate the biological reality of sex fundamentally attack women by depriving them of their dignity, safety, and well-being. The erasure of sex in language and policy has a corrosive impact not just on women but on the validity of the entire American system. Basing Federal policy on truth is critical to scientific inquiry, public safety, morale, and trust in government itself.

This unhealthy road is paved by an ongoing and purposeful attack against the ordinary and longstanding use and understanding of biological and scientific terms, replacing the immutable biological reality of sex with an internal, fluid, and subjective sense of self unmoored from biological facts. Invalidating the true and biological category of “woman” improperly transforms laws and policies designed to protect sex-based opportunities into laws and policies that undermine them, replacing longstanding, cherished legal rights and values with an identity-based, inchoate social concept.

This will defend women’s rights and protect freedom of conscience by using clear and accurate language and policies that recognize women are biologically female, and men are biologically male.

Policy and Definitions.

The policy is to recognize two sexes, male and female. These sexes are not changeable and are grounded in fundamental and incontrovertible reality:

(a) “Sex” shall refer to an individual’s immutable biological classification as either male or female. “Sex” is not a synonym for and does not include the concept of “gender identity.”

(b) “Women” or “woman” and “girls” or “girl” shall mean adult and juvenile human females, respectively.

(c) “Men” or “man” and “boys” or “boy” shall mean adult and juvenile human males, respectively.

(d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.

(e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.

(f) “Gender ideology” replaces the biological category of sex with an ever-shifting concept of self-assessed gender identity, permitting the false claim that males can identify as and thus become women and vice versa, and requiring all institutions of society to regard this false claim as true. Gender ideology includes the idea that there is a vast spectrum of genders that are disconnected from one’s sex. Gender ideology is internally inconsistent, in that it diminishes sex as an identifiable or useful category but nevertheless maintains that it is possible for a person to be born in the wrong sexed body.

(g) “Gender identity” reflects a fully internal and subjective sense of self, disconnected from biological reality and sex and existing on an infinite continuum, that does not provide a meaningful basis for identification and cannot be recognized as a replacement for sex.

Recognizing Women Are Biologically Distinct From Men.

Full statement text at https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

Every news outlet is reporting this as anti trans legisliaton.

Not one has reported it is about women's rights.

That's why I started this thread, although there are others as hoping the search engines will pick it up.

Seems that women's rights are so unimportant to anyone, that even when there is a political statement about them, the media reports it is about something else.

Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism And Restoring Biological Truth To The Federal Government – The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7301 of title 5, United

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

OP posts:
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14
Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 15:15

Any chance you might answer @teentantrums' question before you flounce disengage?

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 15:16

Convenient timing considering teentantrums clear question

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 15:19

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:14

So to be clear you don't believe women should have the rights we historically had to prevent oppression, harassment and physical harms we faced based on the reality of our sexed bodies and assumptions made about our sexed bodies?

Eh ?

Ok, I shall have to be done with this exchange.

I cannot do anything about the projection and repeated assertions I believe things I don’t, or I have said things I haven’t.

However, I can disengage.

Edited

It's not projection. You repeatedly ignore the point and call Trumps EO which has restored rights to the sex based status quo transphobic. This means you do not believe that women should have sex based protections and you believe that they are, in fact, transphobic.

If I am wrong you can actually engage in what I, and others, have talked about over several posts and explain in what way restoring rights which protect women based on the realities of our sexed bodies are problematic to you?

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:21

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 15:19

It's not projection. You repeatedly ignore the point and call Trumps EO which has restored rights to the sex based status quo transphobic. This means you do not believe that women should have sex based protections and you believe that they are, in fact, transphobic.

If I am wrong you can actually engage in what I, and others, have talked about over several posts and explain in what way restoring rights which protect women based on the realities of our sexed bodies are problematic to you?

Edited

This means you do not believe that women should have sex based protections.

this is false. You can continue to state it but it doesn’t make it true.

Ive have engaged more than enough, the same cannot be said for others.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 15:23

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:21

This means you do not believe that women should have sex based protections.

this is false. You can continue to state it but it doesn’t make it true.

Ive have engaged more than enough, the same cannot be said for others.

Edited

In that case, I take it you believe that the teenage girls in my scenario should be able to exclude the trans woman and enjoy their sex based protections?

FlowchartRequired · 27/01/2025 15:23

Sections in bold were written by Lostcat.

'No trans people have existed throughout human history and across all cultures.'

Show me the evidence of these stone age, bronze age, iron age, etc. trans people. Could Neanderthals also be trans?

'As I stated earlier, the vast majority of sex segregated spaces - toilets/ changing, etc., have always been and always will be based on self ID, whether a person is trans or not.'

When Elizabeth Fry was campaigning for single sex prisons you can bet that 'self ID' wasn't a concept that had even be thought of. When ‘Public Waiting Rooms’ were first around in Victorian times after the invention of the flushing toilet, the vast majority of these were men’s toilets. Do you honestly think that these were operated by 'self-ID'?

'I’d be more than happy to advocate for “third spaces” for transphobic people with xx chromosomes .'

I am also really fed up with this idea that women/girls needing single sex spaces or care (for safety, dignity, privacy or for any other reason that they want) is 'anti-trans'. All this does is make it clear that gender identity idology is anti female people having a choice. If a woman wants to use single sex facilities, rape crisis centres, single-sex medial care, etc, she should have that choice and it should be provided.

I would like Lost to finally answer whether female people are reasonable (rather than anti-trans) to request single-sex care if, for example, they are in hospital with a broken neck after a car crash and obviously need washing, toileting, changing tampons/sanitary pads etc.

Female people need to be able to say 'no' to male people, including those with 'special woman feelings' and they should not be subject to emotional manipulation (such as framing this need as anti-trans) when this is what they need.

Female people are halp the population, their needs should not come after males with 'special woman feelings'. Single sex toilets should be just that - for female people. Any male including those with 'special woman feelings' knows that they are male, and if they are decent people they would stay out of facilities etc. for females and use the ones for their own sex or mixed sex provisions.

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 15:23

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:21

This means you do not believe that women should have sex based protections.

this is false. You can continue to state it but it doesn’t make it true.

Ive have engaged more than enough, the same cannot be said for others.

Edited

Again with the edits!

Anything to say in response to @teentantrums question?

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 15:23

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:21

This means you do not believe that women should have sex based protections.

this is false. You can continue to state it but it doesn’t make it true.

Ive have engaged more than enough, the same cannot be said for others.

Edited

So do you believe that women should have single sex spaces and sports which can only be accessed by people who are female?

Because that is what a sex based protection is. It would mean that no trans woman could be in those spaces because they are male bodied?

Because we cannot protect women from sex based oppression and harassment without those spaces.

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 15:24

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:21

This means you do not believe that women should have sex based protections.

this is false. You can continue to state it but it doesn’t make it true.

Ive have engaged more than enough, the same cannot be said for others.

Edited

@Lostcat thinks women should have sexed based protections, but that includes the cognitive sex thingy women

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:26

@teentantrums question is a hypothetical / unrealistic scenario based on a transphobic fantasy. Therefore , I have no response to it.
For example, for starters, how would the teenagers know that they were changing with a trans woman? And why would the trans woman be wanting to change in front of them? Almost all leisure centres these days have some private cubicles. Etc.

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 15:28

And why would the trans woman be wanting to change in front of them?

Gosh, that's a tough one🤔

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 15:28

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:26

@teentantrums question is a hypothetical / unrealistic scenario based on a transphobic fantasy. Therefore , I have no response to it.
For example, for starters, how would the teenagers know that they were changing with a trans woman? And why would the trans woman be wanting to change in front of them? Almost all leisure centres these days have some private cubicles. Etc.

Edited

Ha, nope.

It's very similar to what recently happened in a sports facility near me. So much so that I thought @teentantrums might actually live near me.

This is REAL LIFE for a lot of women @Lostcat

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/01/2025 15:28

For example, for starters, how would the teenagers know that they were changing with a trans woman?

Oh I think they might guess.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:32

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 15:28

Ha, nope.

It's very similar to what recently happened in a sports facility near me. So much so that I thought @teentantrums might actually live near me.

This is REAL LIFE for a lot of women @Lostcat

I would need a lot more details to make sense of it.
feel free to share and I will try.

FlowchartRequired · 27/01/2025 15:32

Apologies for the typo. My post up the page should read 'Female people are half the population'.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/01/2025 15:33

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:26

@teentantrums question is a hypothetical / unrealistic scenario based on a transphobic fantasy. Therefore , I have no response to it.
For example, for starters, how would the teenagers know that they were changing with a trans woman? And why would the trans woman be wanting to change in front of them? Almost all leisure centres these days have some private cubicles. Etc.

Edited

Leaving aside the old transactivist trope that women can't accurately sex men when they see them, asking again why you said earlier:
"What I do think is that the discourse on "sex-segregation" (one group of people "trumping" another group of people, etc) is based on a number of really problematic assumptions/ stereotypes/ prejudices."

This is quite an unusual approach to take to safeguarding principles. There was a male poster on here some years ago determined to insist that single sex spaces were exclusionary and transphobic and that women should be forbidden from using them but it's a while since I heard that very niche belief.

Just wondering why you shared this particular belief of yours on here?

Beowulfa · 27/01/2025 15:34

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:26

@teentantrums question is a hypothetical / unrealistic scenario based on a transphobic fantasy. Therefore , I have no response to it.
For example, for starters, how would the teenagers know that they were changing with a trans woman? And why would the trans woman be wanting to change in front of them? Almost all leisure centres these days have some private cubicles. Etc.

Edited

My local council-run swimming pool offers "women only" sessions. There is a large mosque in the vicinity. Does "women only" mean women only, or women plus the men with the cognitive sex thing? This isn't hypothetical or unrealistic- it is council taxpayers money.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 15:35

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:26

@teentantrums question is a hypothetical / unrealistic scenario based on a transphobic fantasy. Therefore , I have no response to it.
For example, for starters, how would the teenagers know that they were changing with a trans woman? And why would the trans woman be wanting to change in front of them? Almost all leisure centres these days have some private cubicles. Etc.

Edited

NO, you do not get out of it that easily. This is an acual current situation playing out at my daughters sports club. It is council-run, a bit shabby and the changing rooms and showers are communal - no cubicles. As for the girls not knowing said person is trans - you have a point. They might just think said person is male seeing as they have a penis. The fact that their wishes are being dismissed as unimportant is a clue to their trans status.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:36

MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/01/2025 15:33

Leaving aside the old transactivist trope that women can't accurately sex men when they see them, asking again why you said earlier:
"What I do think is that the discourse on "sex-segregation" (one group of people "trumping" another group of people, etc) is based on a number of really problematic assumptions/ stereotypes/ prejudices."

This is quite an unusual approach to take to safeguarding principles. There was a male poster on here some years ago determined to insist that single sex spaces were exclusionary and transphobic and that women should be forbidden from using them but it's a while since I heard that very niche belief.

Just wondering why you shared this particular belief of yours on here?

I don’t think you understood my statement. I was talking about the discourse on sex segregation, where people pose a narrative oppositional framing of who trumps who

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:36

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 15:35

NO, you do not get out of it that easily. This is an acual current situation playing out at my daughters sports club. It is council-run, a bit shabby and the changing rooms and showers are communal - no cubicles. As for the girls not knowing said person is trans - you have a point. They might just think said person is male seeing as they have a penis. The fact that their wishes are being dismissed as unimportant is a clue to their trans status.

NO, you do not get out of it that easily

dear lord, do you think I answer to you?

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 15:37

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:32

I would need a lot more details to make sense of it.
feel free to share and I will try.

What "lot more details" do you need? Genuine question.

Take teentantrums' question and substitute swimming pool for sports club. She's been very clear in how she outlined it.

The bones of the situation are the same.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 15:38

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:36

NO, you do not get out of it that easily

dear lord, do you think I answer to you?

I think if you come to a discussion, you should be able to back up your arguments instead of dismissing them as hypothetical when they are not. Are you seriously saying that teenage girls should be forced to change in front of grown males? Why are they not allowed boundaries?

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 15:39

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:36

NO, you do not get out of it that easily

dear lord, do you think I answer to you?

Deflection

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:40

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 15:37

What "lot more details" do you need? Genuine question.

Take teentantrums' question and substitute swimming pool for sports club. She's been very clear in how she outlined it.

The bones of the situation are the same.

For example- how do these teenagers know this person is trans?
to what extent has this trans person undergone social/ medical transition? How does anyone know this? At what point and how did this become clear?
what is your connection to this situation?

Beowulfa · 27/01/2025 15:42

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 15:36

I don’t think you understood my statement. I was talking about the discourse on sex segregation, where people pose a narrative oppositional framing of who trumps who

You can talk about narrative oppostional framings. We are talking about teenage girls having to get changed in front of males, and being told they're wrong to feel uncomfortable.

What kind of person isn't instantly repulsed by the idea of a bloke insisting he has a right to get changed with girls?

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