Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 21/01/2025 18:51

Purpose.

Ideologues who deny the biological reality of sex have increasingly used legal and other socially coercive means to permit men to self-identify as women and gain access to intimate single-sex spaces and activities designed for women, from women’s domestic abuse shelters to women’s workplace showers. This is wrong. Efforts to eradicate the biological reality of sex fundamentally attack women by depriving them of their dignity, safety, and well-being. The erasure of sex in language and policy has a corrosive impact not just on women but on the validity of the entire American system. Basing Federal policy on truth is critical to scientific inquiry, public safety, morale, and trust in government itself.

This unhealthy road is paved by an ongoing and purposeful attack against the ordinary and longstanding use and understanding of biological and scientific terms, replacing the immutable biological reality of sex with an internal, fluid, and subjective sense of self unmoored from biological facts. Invalidating the true and biological category of “woman” improperly transforms laws and policies designed to protect sex-based opportunities into laws and policies that undermine them, replacing longstanding, cherished legal rights and values with an identity-based, inchoate social concept.

This will defend women’s rights and protect freedom of conscience by using clear and accurate language and policies that recognize women are biologically female, and men are biologically male.

Policy and Definitions.

The policy is to recognize two sexes, male and female. These sexes are not changeable and are grounded in fundamental and incontrovertible reality:

(a) “Sex” shall refer to an individual’s immutable biological classification as either male or female. “Sex” is not a synonym for and does not include the concept of “gender identity.”

(b) “Women” or “woman” and “girls” or “girl” shall mean adult and juvenile human females, respectively.

(c) “Men” or “man” and “boys” or “boy” shall mean adult and juvenile human males, respectively.

(d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.

(e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.

(f) “Gender ideology” replaces the biological category of sex with an ever-shifting concept of self-assessed gender identity, permitting the false claim that males can identify as and thus become women and vice versa, and requiring all institutions of society to regard this false claim as true. Gender ideology includes the idea that there is a vast spectrum of genders that are disconnected from one’s sex. Gender ideology is internally inconsistent, in that it diminishes sex as an identifiable or useful category but nevertheless maintains that it is possible for a person to be born in the wrong sexed body.

(g) “Gender identity” reflects a fully internal and subjective sense of self, disconnected from biological reality and sex and existing on an infinite continuum, that does not provide a meaningful basis for identification and cannot be recognized as a replacement for sex.

Recognizing Women Are Biologically Distinct From Men.

Full statement text at https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

Every news outlet is reporting this as anti trans legisliaton.

Not one has reported it is about women's rights.

That's why I started this thread, although there are others as hoping the search engines will pick it up.

Seems that women's rights are so unimportant to anyone, that even when there is a political statement about them, the media reports it is about something else.

Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism And Restoring Biological Truth To The Federal Government – The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7301 of title 5, United

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 12:53

@Lostcat Trans people (well the majority ) don’t want to be othered and outed in every aspect of their public lives . They just want to be able to live their lives with dignity and privacy like everyone else.

How come it's all "dignity and privacy" when you talk about transpeople, but we're not allowed to use that argument for women-only spaces?

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 12:53

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 12:45

I’d be more than happy to advocate for “third spaces” for transphobic people with xx chromosomes . But this idea never seems to go down well on these threads. I wonder why? 🤔

I beg to differ. You obviously haven't read this board very well at all. The concept of spaces for XX people who only want to share with other XX people has been suggested on here several times and met with a positive reaction.

People who don't mind who they share with can have a mixed sex space.
Your attempt at a "gotcha" has failed, sorry.

People who don't mind who they share with can have a mixed sex space.

This is not the proposal.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 12:54

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 12:36

Trans people (well the majority ) don’t want to be othered and outed in every aspect of their public lives . They just want to be able to live their lives with dignity and privacy like everyone else.

I’d be more than happy to advocate for “third spaces” for transphobic people with xx chromosomes . But this idea never seems to go down well on these threads. I wonder why? 🤔

Edited

It’s this.

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 12:55

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 12:54

It’s this.

Who is in spaces 1 and 2 then?

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 12:56

@Lostcat what is transphobic about the recognition that the needs of female bodied people often conflict with the wishes of female cognitive but male bodied people?

It's fact based, isn't it?

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 12:58

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 12:55

Who is in spaces 1 and 2 then?

They need to colonise the word 'woman' or the queering doesn't work

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 12:58

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 12:55

Who is in spaces 1 and 2 then?

Women (inclusive of trans people)

Men (inclusive of trans people)

Third space: people with XX chromosomes who don’t want to share with trans women.

This way everyone’s personal privacy , dignity and boundaries can be respected without othering / outing trans people.

(Of course it arguably others and outs the third group- that’s why people on these threads wouldn’t accept it. You’d think it would make people reconsider how neutral/ reasonable their idea of a third space for trans people is, but apparently it doesn’t. Self reflection doesn’t seem to be a strong point among certain ideological groups.)

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 13:00

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 12:58

Women (inclusive of trans people)

Men (inclusive of trans people)

Third space: people with XX chromosomes who don’t want to share with trans women.

This way everyone’s personal privacy , dignity and boundaries can be respected without othering / outing trans people.

(Of course it arguably others and outs the third group- that’s why people on these threads wouldn’t accept it. You’d think it would make people reconsider how neutral/ reasonable their idea of a third space for trans people is, but apparently it doesn’t. Self reflection doesn’t seem to be a strong point among certain ideological groups.)

Edited

Yes, that's what I said.

A space for XX people who only want to share with other XX people.

Glad we agree.

JanesLittleGirl · 27/01/2025 13:01

If a pub installed a toilet facility labelled "For biological females who don't want to share with biological males no matter how they identify", I would be really happy to use it. How long would it be before the first trans-identifying male followed me in?

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 13:01

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 12:58

Women (inclusive of trans people)

Men (inclusive of trans people)

Third space: people with XX chromosomes who don’t want to share with trans women.

This way everyone’s personal privacy , dignity and boundaries can be respected without othering / outing trans people.

(Of course it arguably others and outs the third group- that’s why people on these threads wouldn’t accept it. You’d think it would make people reconsider how neutral/ reasonable their idea of a third space for trans people is, but apparently it doesn’t. Self reflection doesn’t seem to be a strong point among certain ideological groups.)

Edited

They need to colonise the word 'woman' or the queering doesn't work. I rest my case

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 13:05

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 13:01

They need to colonise the word 'woman' or the queering doesn't work. I rest my case

Edited

@Lostcat You've edited your post to add extra detail - fine.

"Other and out" me as a third group of XX who doesn't want to share with transwomen. I don't care!

"that’s why people on these threads wouldn’t accept it" - wrong. And btw you don't speak for me.

"Self reflection doesn’t seem to be a strong point among certain ideological groups" - again we agree! Wonderful.

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 13:07

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 13:00

Yes, that's what I said.

A space for XX people who only want to share with other XX people.

Glad we agree.

Sorry Alice, my response was in reply to @Lostcat . Don't know why your post was quoted. But I agree with you FWIW!

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 13:08

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 13:07

Sorry Alice, my response was in reply to @Lostcat . Don't know why your post was quoted. But I agree with you FWIW!

No worries. I understood. And agree with you btw😀

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 13:10

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 13:05

@Lostcat You've edited your post to add extra detail - fine.

"Other and out" me as a third group of XX who doesn't want to share with transwomen. I don't care!

"that’s why people on these threads wouldn’t accept it" - wrong. And btw you don't speak for me.

"Self reflection doesn’t seem to be a strong point among certain ideological groups" - again we agree! Wonderful.

Edited

Great.
Well I would fully support this -

Women (inclusive of trans people)
Men (inclusive of trans people)
Third space: people with XX chromosomes who don’t want to share with trans women.

as a policy solution to resolving this row without resorting to fascist legislation like Trump’s EO (which write non-sensical and discriminatory ideological notions into law).

AlisonDonut · 27/01/2025 13:11

The TRAs always come up with this genuius concept. The concept that already existed until they came along and ruined it. The concept that we have all been discussing for years. And then don't even understand why people all shout 'YES PLEASE'.

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 13:13

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 13:10

Great.
Well I would fully support this -

Women (inclusive of trans people)
Men (inclusive of trans people)
Third space: people with XX chromosomes who don’t want to share with trans women.

as a policy solution to resolving this row without resorting to fascist legislation like Trump’s EO (which write non-sensical and discriminatory ideological notions into law).

Edited

It's more than a "row".

These are our lives.

Do try to take that on board.

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 13:14

No, you are not having the word 'Woman' @Lostcat . You can label your toilet 'Gender neutral'. Transwomen don't need to worry about being othered because there will also be lots of non-trans gender-ideologists using that loo too, I'm sure

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 13:14

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 13:13

It's more than a "row".

These are our lives.

Do try to take that on board.

Your lives are not at threat because of the existence of trans people.

I wish you would take that on board, but I understand that you won't.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 13:15

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 13:14

No, you are not having the word 'Woman' @Lostcat . You can label your toilet 'Gender neutral'. Transwomen don't need to worry about being othered because there will also be lots of non-trans gender-ideologists using that loo too, I'm sure

So that's not my solution. So we disagree. I don't want a gender neutral toilet. That's not what I proposed. You don't get to "colonise" (as you like to call it) how other people use words.

You can use words as you like to manage entry to your third space.

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 13:18

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 13:15

So that's not my solution. So we disagree. I don't want a gender neutral toilet. That's not what I proposed. You don't get to "colonise" (as you like to call it) how other people use words.

You can use words as you like to manage entry to your third space.

Edited

Well, women who do not want transwomen in their loos outnumber those who don't mind 2:1 at the mo. And that number shifts more in our favour every year. Don't make me tap the YouGov sign

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/01/2025 13:18

This is not the proposal.

It's my proposal, that of others, and what the majority want.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 13:19

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 13:15

So that's not my solution. So we disagree. I don't want a gender neutral toilet. That's not what I proposed. You don't get to "colonise" (as you like to call it) how other people use words.

You can use words as you like to manage entry to your third space.

Edited

Anyway I think we have exhausted the illustrative purpose of this thought experiment.

This was the proposal.

Women (inclusive of trans people)
Men (inclusive of trans people)
Third space: people with XX chromosomes who don’t want to share with trans women.

It doesn't involve any gender neutral space. It protects your privacy and boundaries so there should be no objection if your goal is simply this.
But your goal isn't boundaries and protection for women. Your goal is to other / exclude/ out and ultimately eliminate trans people.

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 13:20

Your goal is to eliminate the sex-category of women. And women say 'no'. Simples

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 13:21

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 13:14

Your lives are not at threat because of the existence of trans people.

I wish you would take that on board, but I understand that you won't.

Women's legal rights and safety have been literally put at threat because of men who identify as women and expect us to capitulate to that as "reality" and put our own material needs aside for them, and who don't respect or understand why we need our own spaces, or indeed the entire history of women's rights legislation.

You have shown zero empathy or understanding of the reality of women's rights. You can't explain what this "automatic cognitive identity" is based on. Oh but it's somehow "female" and must be counted as the same as actual women, even though you cannot define what this is based on.

I wish you would take all this on board, but unfortunately, you're too busy being disingenuous, failing to engage with most of the points and questions put to you and claiming we're fascists for daring to think women's legal rights and material reality matter.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 13:21

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 13:20

Your goal is to eliminate the sex-category of women. And women say 'no'. Simples

And women say 'no'. Simples.

Except that I'm a woman. So it's not that "simples" is it?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.