Parliament petition "Abolish Non-Crime Hate Incidents"

[Seainasive]

Now posting without the link. We should try to get this to 10,000 signatures.

Signed.

Here's a link to the thread that has the link to the petition that lay in the house that Jack built

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/5248758-petition-abolish-non-crime-hate-incidents

✍️

👍

Signed.
It had got over 6000 signatures at that point.

@Seainasive

The petition states this: 'The term 'non-crime hate incident' describes an incident which involves an act by a person which is perceived by another person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards people with a particular characteristic, i.e. race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, transgender identity.'

So I'm not misunderstanding you, you want the freedom to be as racist/disablist/etc. as you like without any repercussions?

Fortunately you are misunderstanding.

Signed.

No, we just don't think that something which is neither a crime nor an emergency should be a police matter.

Obviously I can't speak for anyone else, but personally:

1. I don't want a police record against my name which is based on nothing more than somebody else's subjective (and possibly malicious) opinion.
2. I don't wish other people to be exposed to that potential injustice either.
3. I don't wish the police to have to waste their time on what are acknowledged to be non-crimes when they are already struggling and failing, on an enormous scale, to deal with actual crimes of all kinds - including those motivated by various kinds of hate.
4. The whole concept encourages an informer culture, more appropriate to a police state than a democracy, which can be weaponised by people with ideological agendas and personal grudges.

Okay - can you explain further?

Why do you think people should be penalised for non crimes?

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

Why do you think people should be penalised for non crimes?

Not necessarily, but I don't believe there should be a free-for-all either.

What we have ATM is social media filled with people who are emboldened to say whatever they like behind fake usernames. How would you deal with this?

First of all, send the police after any people whose posts do actually break the law - promptly, and with no exceptions for favoured groups or individuals. They did it to people who incited rioting after those three poor little girls were killed, so it can be done, online anonymity or not. I would bet good money that a lot of the filth online does cross a legal boundary but no action is taken (rape threats to female MPs for instance).

Secondly, if any particular behaviour is causing specific and serious problems but is not currently illegal (doxxing might be a possible candidate?), refer it to parliament for possible legislation.

Anything else: the answer is debate. Out-argue the blighters, support the individuals and groups they target, show up their ethics for what they are, and tell them where they get off.

You should not be dealing with people who say words that are not a crime. You should let them use the words they choose for themselves.

If you think that shitposting on Twitter should be a crime then campaign for our democratically elected representatives to make it one (and explain how you think the police should actually find and prosecute the people shitposting on Twitter and how much of our resources you think they should dedicate to doing so).

Otherwise, stay off Twitter? Just don't look at it. It's not hard.

Signed.

Thank you, signed

Not at all Jess

if you consider anything I say or write racist or disablist, I would expect to you and everyone else to call me out on that!

and if my word or actions were ever to be considered discriminatory, I would absolutely expect and deserve the legal consequences.

but I wouldn’t want the police to record secret files of non- crimes which can affect my professional and volunteering roles just on an individual’s say so.

The relevant platforms should be dealing with this kind of thing. If they can't/won't, leave. If people did this en masse, it would have a huge impact. We give SM too much control and influence over our lives (I am guilty of this too).

Signed. 7397 signatures now.

If even one rapist gets jailed as a result of police resources being redeployed away from non crime hate incidents where they do not belong and back onto actual crimes where they do belong, it would be an excellent outcome.

If anyone is interested I'll link to an interpretation of the case of Harry Miller vs the College of Policing

https://www.mountfordchambers.com/miller-v-college-of-policing-social-media-non-crime-hate-incidents-and-the-right-to-freedom-of-expression/

I'd link to the judgement itself but it would entail a download.

Here's a slightly less legalese report from the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/21/ex-police-officer-wins-appeal-over-forces-guidance-on-hate-incidents

Despite losing the Police are still policing squabbles, acting on complaints from people who the original complaints weren't even aimed at, months after they were made and the 'non-criminal' often has no idea they've been found guilty of a non-crime. No investigation, no chance to defend yourself, no ability to appeal, no way to learn and amend your behaviour. Everyone should be checking every intemperate word before they even say or write it just in case someone, anyone, feels offended and dobs them in to the bizzies Police. Oops, i might nearly have committed a non-crime there.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

If you think that shitposting on Twitter should be a crime then campaign for our democratically elected representatives to make it one (and explain how you think the police should actually find and prosecute the people shitposting on Twitter and how much of our resources you think they should dedicate to doing so).

Otherwise, stay off Twitter? Just don't look at it. It's not hard.

Why should I stay off Twitter because it's now full of racist hate? I used to love Twitter, but now it's become quite homogeneous.

I don't think such posting should be a crime per se, or use police resources, unless actual criminal acts are alluded to (eg. terrorism, extremism, other forms of violence).

BTW, why do you believe the police can't easily find a user behind a Twitter handle?

Twitter has always been full of racist hate. But despite racism being the primary reason for the introduction of NCHI in the first place, the police have done nothing about it.

You know I can report you for a NCHI if I wanted @JessaWoo ?

What would the circumstances for that be, then?