Parliament petition "Abolish Non-Crime Hate Incidents"

[Seainasive]

Now posting without the link. We should try to get this to 10,000 signatures.

Whatever I want. I can just claim I was offended by something you posted.

The victim does not have to justify or provide evidence of their belief, and police officers or staff should not directly challenge this perception. Evidence of the hostility is not required.

I don’t have to prove it, or provide evidence for it. Equally the police would just know you as user “JessaWoo” so you wouldn’t likely be affected in real life, but it will sit there.

I've signed, thanks for bringing this to our attention OP.

Freedom of speech is vital. @Heggettypeg explained it well earlier on the thread.

It's not about whether the police can find a user behind a Twitter handle or not.

It's about whether this is a good use of their time and taxpayer funded resources.

People are committing actual crimes with impunity and you want the police to help make your experience of Twitter more enjoyable? Really?

As I said, if you want offending people on Twitter to be a criminal offence then let's ask our democratically elected politicians to debate that in parliament.

But getting put on a list maintained by the police for making perfectly legal comments such as "if you have a penis, you're a man", and not even having the right to know that you're on such a list?

Fuck that.

That's sinister, Orwellian, anti-democratic, and in breach of our right to a fair trial. Because how can you have a fair trial if you're being punished/kept tabs on for something that isn't a crime?

If it's neither a crime nor an emergency, it's none of the police's goddamn business.

Why should I stay off Twitter because it's now full of racist hate? I used to love Twitter, but now it's become quite homogeneous.

You might like "Bluesky" where like old Twitter, only certain types of hate are tolerated.

It can't be said enough that NOBODY has the right to never be offended.

As a younger person with woolly liberal leanings (which I still have, actually) when I saw something racist, sexist etc I would gasp and exclaim "they can't say that!!!" and I used to think the world would be a better place if people with such opinions could be made to shut up somehow. I didn't actually think about how that would be achieved, mind, I just wished they could be told off and made to see sense. Oh the naivety!

Of course, the older I've got and the more that I've seen, I now know that silencing people causes more problems. Look at any authoritarian system from history - or the present day - and know that oppressing free speech is the first step on a very slippery slope. I believe in freedom of speech, and the right to openly debate all and every issue. Discussing things in the clear light of day is better than letting them fester in darkness.

And the police should be dealing with crimes. They don't come out for break-ins, thefts or antisocial behaviour round here (and probably worse) so they shouldn't be spending time investigating wrongthink.

What we have ATM is social media filled with people who are emboldened to say whatever they like behind fake usernames. How would you deal with this?

Use the platform's reporting function? It's not the fucking police's job to monitor Twitter spats unless there's actual crime involved.

20 years ago I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you JessaWoo.

The problem for me is, who gets to decide what is motivated by hate or what characteristics should be protected.

Imagine how a political party like Reform could use this legislation if they ever got a whiff of power.

🙄 So idiotic. You all must get so tired of typing the same things over and over.

No, I have no thought or requirement to report people on Twitter. If I did, I know how to report them, particularly if it was criminal. I was responding to a particular poster here, not you.

I don’t think the law should put resources into ‘non-crimes’
It takes them away from serious incidents
And it appears to be slanted towards an individual’s hurt feelings. Nobody has the right not to be offended. Free speech is a cornerstone of any civilised society.
Who said ‘I might not agree with everything you say but I defend your right to say it’
Or something like that

Actually, no, I don't particularly enjoy Blue Sky. Thanks though.

In the meantime, the petition has gone over 10k :-)

Fantastic. Although, the response will inevitably be disappointing, and I'm usually a glass half full kinda gal.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

It's not about whether the police can find a user behind a Twitter handle or not.

It's about whether this is a good use of their time and taxpayer funded resources.

So if someone was using posting escalating racist diatribes on Twitter, culminating in a bomb threat to a shopping centre, is finding the user a waste of police resources? If not, at what point do the police step in? Before the bomb threat or after? (In your world, that is.)

What we have ATM is social media filled with people who are emboldened to say whatever they like behind fake usernames. How would you deal with this?
The answer is obvious. If I ruled the world, I would tax every single move on the internet. It might make people / companies / scammers stop and think twice before using it so freely and thoughtlessly. And it would raise oodles of money. Win / win.
My job application to be the next Chancellor of the Exchequer is in the post.

This would be a crime and rightly so. This is not the same as the non-crime hate incidents which are deeply problematic and the subject of the petition.

These allow any member of the public to log an incident against anyone else based on the idea that they perceived something to be hateful.
The police do not have to investigate as it is not a crime, there is no prosecution, no court case, you are not notified but you suddenly have a police record that would turn up on DBS or other security checks.

Say for example, I disagreed with you vehemently on a political issue on twitter. You have said nothing hateful but I have interpreted it as so. I log an incident and you suddenly have a police record without any other process being followed or investigation or even knowing about it.

Surely, you must agree that this would be completely wrong and open to abuse?

Signed. 10,321 now

So if someone was using posting escalating racist diatribes on Twitter, culminating in a bomb threat to a shopping centre, is finding the user a waste of police resources?
If somebody is doing something illegal then involving the police is not a waste of resources.
Using the police to investigate non crime hate incidents is a waste of resources. The clue is in the name - it's not a crime so why are the police there!
What else do you want the police to get involved with? - incorrect recycling, misuse of grammar, tutting, selling creme eggs before we've even finished the Christmas season. The list could be endless.

If someone is posting racist diatribes then eventually recording them as NCHIs and not even telling the person doing the posting will keep everyone safe. Definitely. That's them not told.

@JessaWoo I could go to the police because I'm offended by you disagreeing with my beliefs. You haven't said anything illegal or offensive here but I don't have to prove that i just have to claim you are hateful and it won't be investigated and you don't get to defend yourself. The victim can just make the accusation and that's you marked with that now.

Such a system is incredibly open to misuse.

Actual hate crimes are still illegal. Actual racism sexism homophobia etc all still illegal. This petition isn't trying to legalise these things. And we each individually retain the ability to call out non crime hate speech when we see it. Imagine if you call it out and that person gets offended and reports you so it's you who ends up with the record against you? That's the system we have now

I could get on board with selling creme eggs right after Christmas being made a crime tbf

Signed - now over 10,400.

Signed

If somebody is doing something illegal then involving the police is not a waste of resources.
Using the police to investigate non crime hate incidents is a waste of resources. The clue is in the name - it's not a crime so why are the police there!

Exactly. Not everyone mouthing off in a racist way is going to make bomb threats, are they? Until they do, they haven't committed a crime.

That would be a crime, not a NON CRIME "hate incident", which is what we are discussing here.

Signed.

The Police should absolutely pursue credible incitement to violence (atm they don't when it's against women), but someone simply being mildly and subjectively offensive is absolutely not a criminal act and pursuing that is a complete waste of Police time. I might not like offensive posts but I don't want a state sanctioned thought Police pursuing them.