Freedom of Information requests about SEEN and Mumsnet

[carpety]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/laura_brown_4

Dozens of requests to various public sector bodies asking about SEEN Networks and MN posts made by employees.

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1hobn9b/seen_network/

"There's been discussion here previously of the Sex Equality and Equity Network (SEEN). I've been using Freedom of Information requests to investigate this group's activities, particularly in the Civil Service (where they seem to have originated), and thought people might be interested in what I've learned."

Seems that this requestor is on a mission to unmask heretics.

And 9 of gender critical phobia in the same time frame

There are FWR posters who try to shame, complain about and control FWR users. One poster likes to give warnings that they have been or will be writing to various organisations to apprise them of our nefarious intentions and behaviours. It is claimed that posters on sites like TwiX and KiwiFarms are in the bailiwick of this self-appointed prefect too.

The FOI application process mentioned on this thread appears to be a similar process carried out for similar reasons. The reason being shutting up ‘bad’ women. It’s also very much an extension of ‘no debate’.

With apologies to both Hoardasaurus and Cornish for the incoming pedantry (I did try to quote post, btw, but something went wrong) but…

• the FOI about complaints re intranet content was to Defra not RPA
• there were 10 complaints on each ‘side’ but 7 upheld on one side and 9 upheld on the other
• the way the Requester phrased the question for each side was not a mirror image of the other - instead a third element was added to one the questions, about expressing support for “tbni people”

“material that, in the complainant's view, created a hostile environment for transgender, non-binary and intersex (TNBI) staff or inappropriately promoted "gender critical" views or the Sex Equality and Equity Network”
^^
“material that, in the complainant's view, created a hostile environment for "gender critical" staff; inappropriately criticised the SEEN Network or its members; or inappropriately expressed support for TNBI people”

No way of knowing if the requester included that additional element intentionally in an attempt to smear members of SEEN by recategorising complaints about intranet posts attacking members of SEEN as complaints about expressions of support for trans staff. But if posts start popping up elsewhere (eg bluesky) making such claims, this oddly worded FOI will be what they are based on.

The requester appears not to have an interest in complaints about the creation of a hostile environment for same-sex oriented staff, as the LGB part of LGBT+ is excluded from the request for information on hostile environment complaints.

I believe it’s to do with the case ‘chair of SEEN being sued for saying only women menstruate’. The case is being brought by TW Samantha Tempest (who didn’t get anonymity) against the RPA and Defra. Updated info is on the crowdfunder.

Well hello ladies. Samantha Tempest isn't involved with my requests in any way. I am who I say I am and I'm a cis woman, though I have to like someone a lot more than I like you before I send fanny pics. I'd love to stay and answer your other questions, but you have the power to answer them yourselves through the obscure art of "reading." Feel free to stage another solidarity campaign where you all wear the same colour while locked alone in your homes. Bye now!

Being gender critical is a protected belief. People are allowed to not believe in gender identity. One of the purposes of the SEEN networks is to advocate for this and to ensure that gender identity does not replace sex in things like HR policy. It really kills the zealots that they can't discrimate against people for having GC views, doesn't it?

I mean, what is the purpose of this heresy hunt? What were they trying to unearth? If anything, it demonstrates how SEEN is operating as a legitimate network (and how vital it is). I'd wager there is evidence of much more discriminatory behaviour on display in the LGBT+ network, with slurs like terf being thrown around.

I also can't imagine HR will be supporting "allies' for much longer as it is being used a front to try to bully people into submission.

I don't think anyone wants any pictures, Laura. What a very odd hobby you have.

So long as it keeps you busy, I suppose, although as a tax payer, I hope you're not doing it on work time.

Given DEFRA have recognised you are vexatious, you are already wasting taxpayers' money with this daft campaign.

What a weird post. Why does alleged Laura think we'd want pictures of Laura's alleged anatomy?

@LauraBrownSheHer - assume you've plopped and run as TRAs usually do, but if you're about - what is it you're hoping to achieve regarding a legitimate staff network holding legally protected views?

Elspeth Something (chair of SEEN at one of their ALBs) I believe is being taken to court with DEFRA named so assume it's someone wanting to be part of that

Yes that was my first thought too.

I love the TRA logic of claiming women's campaigning is useless, whilst simultaneously moving heaven and earth to stop them.

Well hello ladies. Samantha Tempest isn't involved with my requests in any way. I am who I say I am and I'm a cis woman, though I have to like someone a lot more than I like you before I send fanny pics. I'd love to stay and answer your other questions, but you have the power to answer them yourselves through the obscure art of "reading." Feel free to stage another solidarity campaign where you all wear the same colour while locked alone in your homes. Bye now!

😂

What a weird post. Why does alleged Laura think we'd want pictures of Laura's alleged anatomy?

It's a head scratcher!

Such a good point.

If we're all locked alone in our homes wearing a colour in solidarity of nothing (all six of us) and unable to find out anything via the obscure art of reading (no, me either) - how does Aunt Laura account for what's happening?

Ah hang on, I think I know the answer - we're being manipulated by sinister right wing agencies again, aren't we?

A reminder that this could easily be someone pretending to be Laura Brown to try and impugn her. That would make far more sense, tbh.

Just following to come back to; this very much concerns me

True, telling the world you like to send pictures of your genitals to people doesn't put one in the best of lights.

I don't think most civil servants would post about sending unsolicited 'fanny pics' to women online, under their real name.

But maybe I'm just behind the times, who knows.

Sorry to disappoint, but not locked up in my home, and not alone.
Cheery bye to you too!

Bit transphobic to suggest that a cis woman has different 'fanny bits' to a trans woman.

The dearth of logic and coherence in TRA arguments and rebuttals really is pathetic and tiresome, small wonder they wanted no debate and authoritarian imposition.

As for their obsession with genitalia, theirs and other peoples, read into that what you will.

I work for a different department/agency. Apparently there were none in mine.

It would be interesting to note whether the complainants were the same for each of the seven complaints, or alternatively whether the person being complained about was the same for all seven.

It seems quite possible that the complaints are vexatious and targeted.

Whether it was Laura or not, I've just cringed myself inside out.

Yes. It will be interesting to see whether, having declared an interest on this thread, whether further targeting will occur.

I'm wondering if this is part of the plan.

The requester has said I want to see all the internal documentation regarding complaints. The response is that there haven't been any. And the requester said well there have, because I sent one.

Presumably the hope is that the more correspondence there is about a specific person the more chance the requester has of confirming their identity.

Does 'vexatious' cover this sort of personal vendetta? Or don't they care, given they have to be transparent?