CPS change the proposed 'sex by deception re gender' legal guidance

[Chariothorses]

Following public objections, the CPS announced yesterday they have changed the proposed legal guidance on Rape and Serious Sexual Offences (RASSO), specifically the guidance on “Deception as to gender”, which can be found in Chapter 6 Consent, to 'Deception as to sex'. Rape and Sexual Offences - Chapter 6: Consent | The Crown Prosecution Service.

The outcome of the consultation is available here: Consultation on the Deception as to Gender section in the Rape and Serious Sexual Offences (RASSO) legal guidance | The Crown Prosecution Service.

summary of consultation responses here: Consultation on CPS guidance on Deception as to Gender - Summary of Responses | The Crown Prosecution Service.

There are ongoing problems re ideological capture by trans lobbyists and misogyny within the CPS so thanks to all who contributed to the changes they have reluctantly introduced.

We're quite lucky on FWR - we get to swiftly identify those seething with bigotry and dislike for women. Misogynists can rarely resist the temptation to display their innermost prejudices against women and girls so their contempt is plain for everyone to see. .

It's perfectly easy not to have sex with people without deceiving them about one's sex

I seem to have managed it all my life.

How long does it take to discuss women’s rights to single sex spaces, whether someone’s a JK Rowling fan & if putting pronouns in signatures is compelled speech?

Why would you want to dupe people into sex in the first pla...oh.

Any person who is putting themselves in danger by being somewhere without their own transport when they have not formed any degree of trust in their relationship and their about to have sex for the first time with that person doesn’t seem to be making healthy decisions. Regardless of whether they have not disclosed their sex category or not.

Believe me, I have absolutely no issue with people not wanting to shag me - non-trans straight male or otherwise - and that has, how shall we say, not exactly been a struggle that has been close to my heart for any of my adult life so far - I have had a lot of experience of finding safe ways to say 'no'.

Thankfully nowadays you can generally be pretty confident that declaring yourself to be a feminist will weed out the obviously toxic ones from the outset as it's become something of a point of pride for the braying culture warriors with misogynistic views. It gets thornier when they like the idea of themselves being progressive but are still dealing with internalised homophobia/transphobia and channel that into trans-hostile ideology. That's when situations are most likely to turn dangerous in today's world, in my experience.

Men cannot be feminists. They can support its aims, but they cannot claim it as part of their identity.

I agree @Greyskybluesky

Men can be "feminist allies" but I find that men who claim to be feminists are frequently the exact opposite.

I await the mansplaining as to why men can be feminists

'Oh, they do, Oscar, they do'.

You have a way with words, ButterflyHatched - this time it's 'bigots' and 'bigotry', which you stretch out of shape to include people who do not wish to have sex with a person who does not belong to the biological sex that they are attracted to.

'Bigotry' involves things like antagonism, irrationality, prejudice etc., whereas 'Sorry mate I only fancy women' is just a statement of fact, which can be made politely, and possibly even accompanied by ' ..but let's finish our G&Ts. So, who do you think is going to win the Premier League/Dancing with the Stars/BBC Young Musician of the Year/Nobel Prize for Chemistry..'?'

No antagonism, no bigotry, just a statement of fact.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 13:12

I will be countering Butterfly's misinformation every single time.

Yes, it's highly necessary to not allow they to go unanswered. Casual readers might otherwise conclude that they is posting reasonable and innocuous information, rather than disinformation about suicides, or the apparent moral imperative for one group of people to have sex by deception.

“in my experience at least, most normal people don't hold raging anti-trans views anymore,”

Weren’t we in the midst of a trans genocide last week? It’s great to see that things can improve so rapidly.

It gets thornier when they like the idea of themselves being progressive but are still dealing with internalised homophobia/transphobia and channel that into trans-hostile ideology.

In just 6 pages, you've insisted they must be homophobic, transphobic/anti-trans, bigots, disgusted by minorities, abusive, not normal, anti-trans culture warriors, raging, discriminatory, dangerous, ideologists, hostile, deeply insecure, unstable, suffering from internalised homo/transphobia, feel that their masculinity is threatened...

...rather than just simply heterosexual men who don't want to have sex with other males.

It's quite odd that you're complaining of others 'pretending to be progressive' when you're here posting that you think people should 'reflect' on their 'ideological' sexual orientation, and seem very upset that the law protects people if they're the victim of a sexual offence.

yourhairiswinterfire · Today 20:29

..rather than just simply heterosexual men who don't want to have sex with other males.

Not so much as Occam's Razor as Occam's Game of Thrones throne.

This 'legal researcher' says the guidance means:

'the CPS has decided that a trans person's failure to disclose their birth sex to their sexual partner may be sufficient to amount to deception which would vitiate consent.'

and

'...trans people would be required to disclose their sex as registered at birth before even engaging in a first kiss.'

So. Best be honest about your sex and not try to deceive people before engaging in sexual activity.

https://bsky.app/profile/jessothomson.bsky.social/post/3ldjew5rycx2t

Nice of Jess, a TRA and recent law graduate, to put it so unequivocally and clearly.

@ButterflyHatched just want to confirm, trans people are marginalised, but also most people are accepting of trans, but also trans are at high risk of danger from someone they want to have sex with, finding out they're trans?

What a complicated existence!

Any evidence to support your claim that trans people are beaten up in this country for telling a potential partner they're trans, or was that more of a 'trust me bro' statement?

You could leave off the last four words from that post and it would be applicable to everyone, especially women.

After all, women are always vulnerable when having sex with men, given they are physically stronger. Even when you have enthusiastically consented to a sexual encounter, there’s always the risk with a new partner that they will push your boundaries try and coerce/force into a particular act that you don’t want to do. You also have to trust they will stop if you ask.

What’s the saying again? Men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them.

“Dangerous situation” @ButterflyHatched ? You have no fucking idea.

The law is clear when it comes to sexual relationships you must be honest about your biological sex no ifs, buts or maybes.
The equality act protecting trans people from discrimination doesn't give them the right to gain consent for sex by deception.
Btw, it's irrelevant how many passing trans people there are. Each and every one of them must be honest about their biological sex before having sexual relationships with anyone failure to do so makes them a sex offender.
This is no different from a man "stealthing" (funny that you use this same term for deceiving a sexual partner about your sex) and removing a condom which was a condition of consent

When it comes to your biological sex and having a sexual relationship with someone your privacy is not protected infact it the exact opposite by law you must disclose your biological sex

I think it works the same as there are hardly any trans people but you've been sharing toilets with them regularly for years. Also, transwomen pass so well that nobody can tell but they live in fear constantly that they will be attacked walking down the street because people can tell they are trans.

@ButterflyHatched do you not have sexual preferences? Is there no type you fancy a lot, and type you don’t fancy much at all?

I’m fussy about who I have sex with. I’m allowed to be. Intimacy only happens when and if I’m ready and trust someone. Any sign that they aren’t who they say they are, and it’s off.

It’s a perfectly reasonable expectation. It protects both parties.

“The law in question makes it clear that gender reassignment is a valid reason for a person to consider themself to not be the sex they were assigned at birth and that it can be a relevant mitigating factor.”

This is the ultimate clash of rights isn’t it because it’s not just a demand to enter spaces it’s a demand to enter bodies. The law as it stands is a lie and having gender reassignment does not turn a man into a woman.