Green Party’s “persecution of women and gender critical members must end”.

[Hairyesterdaygonetoday]

The Green Party of England and Wales has long been utterly captured by transgenderism. Long-standing, hard-working members have been vilified and in some cases forced out of the party. Many other environmentalists have left in despair at the environment being pushed down the list of priorities.

The Green Women’s Declaration today published an open letter to the party leadership, stating that the persecution of women and GC members must end.

https://greenwomensdeclaration.uk/open-letter-to-the-leadership-of-the-green-party-of-england-and-wales-gpew/

This is heartening to hear!!

I think this may be instructive.

I used to be a member of the Greens in Canada. At one time they were doing very well, gaining increasing respect on a lot of fronts, very savvy and insightful about risks to democratic institutions and with a thoughtful platform that drew freely from both right and left. In a lot of ways, they weren't left in the way many people think of them, in fact they had significant links over the years to conservative politics as well as left wing politics. Their leader was even included in some official election debates.

All of this changed a few election cycles ago and the party has largely imploded. They are no longer a real factor in federal politics. And it's almost entirely around identity politics issues.

It was kind of horrible but instructive to watch, but basically they were captured by new members who were able to expert a lot of power because of the very flat and democratic structure of the party. Policies and the platform were in many cases directly voted for by members.

All of a sudden the interesting and thoughtful policies were gone, and it was all typical left talking points, free Palestine, free childcare for all through the state, sex work is work, and all the things you'd expect. They even effectively walked back one of their really important rules around always allowing free votes as MPs are responsible to their constituents - the leader made it clear that on certain topics, no Green MP would take certain views so no need to worry.

That was when I left the party.

With regard sex work. I'm 100% in favour of decriminalisation in all situations. The sex worker themselves (male or female) committed no crime doing sex work unless, for example, they assaulted somebody. The punter or any sort of pimp however, should face criminal prosecution.

What you are describing is called the Nordic Model, not decriminalisation.

A few questions:

Are you in favour of sexworkers legally allowed to work together for safety (they cannot do this in any Nordic Model country)?

Should they be allowed to hire security, or a driver, or someone to design a website for them to advertise (any of these jobs would fall under "pimping").

Should they be able to rent property? (illegal in some Nordic Model countries for landlords to rent to sexworkers, if the sexworker is caught she must be evicted).

Should they be allowed to sell sexual services without having social services judge them as "self harming" and take their children taken off them? (Sweden)

Should it be ok for bouncers to turn women away from pubs etc if they "look like a prostitute" (for example, look Asian)? (example from Sweden)
web.archive.org/web/20230618235559/www.thelocal.se/20130912/50200

Should condoms be used as evidence that sexwork has taken place? (this happens under the Nordic Model as well as outright criminalisation, which results in them being used less)

"The punter should face criminal prosecution."

Easier said than done, even if the police use huge amounts of resources to track down where sexworkers live (they do this in Sweden by posing as clients and making hoax bookings) and stalk the homes of sexworkers until they see men enter or leave, it's still very difficult to acquire enough evidence for a conviction as sexworkers refuse to testify against their clients (it's their source of income, so why would they, and also why they use condoms less as that makes it easier to deny any sex has taken place). In the first 2000 client arrests in Sweden, only 2 were convicted who received low fines.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230618234752/hivlawcommission.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/FinalReport-RisksRightsHealth-EN.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20230618234752/hivlawcommission.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/FinalReport-RisksRightsHealth-EN.pdf p38

Is the Green Party in Ireland as batshit as those in England and Wales and Scotland?

Because apparently it's having a bad time in the Irish GE, after losing both its MEP seats and seeing its number of local councillors halved.

Christinapple · 29/11/2024 15:07

"The Green Party are supportive of LGBT rights yes including trans people and that isn't going to change. I emailed them earlier this year expressing concerns about their involvement with "Green Party Women" and how their views re LGBT rights (and other topics such as sexwork) were in direct conflict with the views of the main party."

In late October 2023, the very existence of Green Party Women was cancelled. They had offended the trans activists and were to be punished. People holding so-called gender critical views were suspended or ousted. Here's a copy of part of an email sent on 23rd Oct '23:

GPRC want to bring down Green Party Women
It has been clear for some time that GPRC are keen to close down Green Party Women. In April and June this year GPRC held two emergency meetings to try to have the GC members of GPRC expelled from the party. You can read more about that sorry saga here. It was only the heroic efforts of Martha James and others that prevented this from happening. Now Martha has stepped down as GPRC Co-Chair citing her reason that “GPRC is not working as it should”. Personally I think Martha massively understates the corrupt practices she and others have witnessed. Now she has stepped aside it is becoming clearer for all to see.

In the email I wrote to you last week I said I was taking legal advice, that is because we received yet another email from a large number of people who yet again claimed that we were transphobic for advocating for women’s rights to safety, fairness and dignity on the basis of our sex. They were calling for an EGM to get rid of us.

Organised attack in summary
In total now, there have been 8 complaints made against the GC members of GPW. 5 have come from Chesca Walton, all calling for us to be expelled from the party. GPRC have had at least 2 emergency meetings to try to suspend us, SOC have been asked to rule against us as unconstitutional, SOC facilitated a rogue report going out against us, allowed a defamatory attack against us to go unchecked at the AGM and then prevented us from speaking in our defence at the GPEW conference, all in an effort to publicly humiliate us. Members have been galvanised to engage in a transphobia smear campaign that seeks to shut us down. When we finally speak up about this, after months of what feels like being in a deeply abusive relationship, the party decides to try and silence us to stop YOU the membership from knowing what is going on.

This is, of course, also an attempt to silence the women from the Green Women's Declaration who will be giving their presentation and Q&A to Green Party Women on Thursday evening - an event which I am scheduled to chair.

I am happy to report to you that I am YOUR Green Party Women Co-Chair. There is nothing that can be done to silence me and my fellow GC members.

The days of bullying and silencing women in this party are behind us. We stand strong and we stand together. We do not recognise the authority of this GPRC NFS and we will continue.

Warmly yours,

Zoe Hatch
Green Party Women Co-Chair.

P.S. There is every chance that this is the last email I will be able to send to you via Action Network. If you would like to be kept up to date with developments in the party PLEASE sign up to the Green Women’s Declaration mailing list linked here. You do not have to be a signatory to join the mailing list and your details will be kept confidential.

*+
Green Party Women then disappeared from the network completely until the end of January 2024. In my local area, most of the people who ran the organisation locally were suspended or sacked. I was horrified. It seems incredible that just a few complaints from bad actors (TRAs) should bring down a whole section of women in this way.

Now I know that you were one of those bad actors @Christinapple. One of the casualties of the purge of women was the Green women's bookclub. I used to enjoy reading the books and discussing them in a nerdy way with other women. I don't actually enjoy spending my entire time wondering whether men ought to be allowed to pretend to be women or not. I would rather read books, and think about my community, and spend time with my friends, and do enjoyable things with other women.

The Irish Green Party is in a different position - they have been the junior member in a 3-way coalition with Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, and junior partners in coalitions never do well, and usually end up being blamed by everybody for anything that goes wrong.

The Greens in Ireland have attracted the wrath of the segments of the population who either don't care about environmental issues, or think that the cost of green policies falls too heavily on the least well-off. Or both.
They are considered 'batshit', but not for the same reasons. Their leader, who was a government minister, was regularly called 'Cabbagehead' in online er..'debate'.

The GP in Ireland has the same batshit gender policies as the UK parties, but so have ALL the other major parties in Irish politics, they were enthusiastic cheerleaders for genderwoo in the aftermath of the referendum in favour of marriage equality, anxious to show that how uber-cool and progressive they are.

Only a couple of small party/independent candidates referred to gender policies in the election campaign.

Interestingly, and perhaps significantly, all of the major parties, and the Greens, downplayed gender issues in the election campaign. I checked all their manifestoes and any mention of 'gender' or 'trans' was either removed altogether, or relegated to a link to a PDF.

So the Greens have been trounced in the election, but for their environmental polices, not their position on gender ideology which is unremarkable here.

Meanwhile, in the General Election I got more votes as a Party Of Women candidate than both the Communist Party and the SDP, despite having Covid and being unable to do any campaigning until a couple of days before the election.

In a Council by-election in September, for a part of the city where I do not live, I came last but increased my share of the vote compared to the General Election.

Would you like to hear my speech at LWS Morpeth on 13 October? 😎

https://www.youtube.com/live/6O7K8HO7Nts?si=BU9o_fZAU1Nh0gpA

"In late October 2023, the very existence of Green Party Women was cancelled."

I heard, and I'm glad the Green Party cut off the gender critical anti-sexworker tag-along (or "cancelled" if you want to use that word). LGBT issues aside, the GPW also advocated for options which would harm sexworkers. The Green Party is supportive of complete decrim of sexwork.

Given they disagree on basically everything, GPW would be better removing the "Green" from their name and starting their own party without any connection to the Green Party whatsoever.

Prostitution and transgenderism both treat women's bodies as commodities to be bought. In prostitution it's paying poor women to act as sex toys for men. In transgenderism it's men paying to purchase the simulacrum of femininity through drugs and surgery and access female spaces - purchasing an idea of womanhood. Most feminists oppose both and should have a voice in any political party.

Before the 'Green' party became captured by identity politrics, it was the place for actual ecologists. People who cared about the environment, about the natural life cycle, and about human interaction within it. People who knew and understood that sex was real and one of the foundational building blocks of animal life on earth.

Now it has become a repository for radicals of every persuasion, including lots of far leftists disenchanted with Labour, for whom living in tune with the environment and the natural world is secondary to identity politics.

The Greens lost out during the last election in Britain, and their share of the vote is down in most other places too...including in Germany where they have traditionally been strong. Their brand of radicalism is not the brand that most of the population are looking for.

There is nothing 'Green' about dosing the human body with hormones and drugs not naturally suited to it.

Other way round. The Green Party, you'll maybe be surprised to hear, was founded to focus on the environment. Many of the members who've been booted out are dedicated lifelong ecological activists.

Those who wish to push transgenderism and pro prostitution policies are free to set up a party with that focus.

Sexwork (or "prostitution") is a very complex issue, and there are different approaches for it.

The Green Party are supporting decriminalisation, the approach advocated for by local and Int human rights orgs, health orgs, STD/AIDs/HIV orgs, anti-trafficking orgs and sexworker orgs (women and some men who sell or have sold physical contact sexual services themselves). But maybe "green party women" know better.

This is based on what is in the best interest for the sexworkers- their safety, not being murdered (a problem in Nordic Model France where clients want to meet in more secluded locations), not being hurt/robbed etc and being able to feel they can contact the police if they are, having choices both relating to their life and their work, being able to work together for safety without being criminalised, being able to rent property, being able to legally hire a driver or someone to make a website for them, being allowed to use condoms, not being harassed by the police who make hoax bookings to get their address and stalk their homes (Swedish police do this), not being discriminated against (in Sweden pubs can turn women away if they "look like a prostitute") etc.

Christinapple, how far does this go? Should sex working ‘opportunities’ be suggested in the job centre? If women won’t take a job as a sex worker should they lose benefits?

Precisely, @Runor. I would not recommend prostitution to my DDs as they are pondering their GCSE choices.

I know what you're referring to, the claim that a German woman was forced to take a brothel job or lose benefits was debunked as false:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hot-jobs/

Here's an article from just today on Belgium, the first country in Europe to decriminalise sexwork in 2022

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/01/belgium-sex-workers-win-maternity-pay-and-pension-rights-in-world-first

"Belgian sex workers have gained the right to sick days, maternity pay and pension rights under the first law of its kind in the world."

In 2020, a NZ sexworker (NZ also has decrim) received a 6 figure payout in a sexual harassment claim against her employer:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55298303

Decrim provides safety, rights and protections for sexworkers. The Nordic Model forces them to work alone, not use condoms and hide what they are doing else face eviction or have social work decide if they are fit to look after their children.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230618235559/www.thelocal.se/20130912/50200" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20230618235559/www.thelocal.se/20130912/50200

A question for you- do you think pubs and other establishments should have the right to refuse entry to women who the bouncer thinks "look like prostitutes" because of how they are dressed or their heritage eg Asian (regardless whether they are actual sexworkers or not), or do you think such a matter should be treated as discrimination?

Christina I actually wasn’t aware of that - but someone’s obviously thought this thought before me!

if you’re on mat leave, who pays? <curious>

In answer to your question, no I don’t think that’s ok - but I’m not sure something which is likely rooted in racist discrimination will be helped much bu decriminalising prostitution

By the way, I have no settled position on sex work, other than a strong belief that we shouldn’t end up with people being forced into it (which is definitely the case now, so obv something needs to change) edited to add but I’m not sure promoting it as a genuine option for most women is a reasonable answer

In German brothels pregnant women are in high demand by men who have a "thing" about raping pregnant women, so no maternity leave for them.

The “German Model”, 17 years after the liberalization of prostitution
Speech by Dr. Ingeborg Kraus at the Italian parliament in Rom, 28.05.2018.

"There is a recent medical report from a gynaecologist who is working with prostituted women. The health condition of these women is catastrophic. Within 30 years they often show signs of early-ageing. All women have persistent abdominal pains, gastritis, and frequent infections due to the unhealthy state of living conditions. And of course, all kinds of sexually transmissible diseases. The psychological traumatisation can just about be tolerated with alcohol and pharmaceutical drugs. He reports about a growing demand for pregnant women in prostitution. Those women have to serve 15 to 40 men a day continuously until they give birth. Very often, they abandon their child and go to work as soon as possible. Sometimes 3 days after birthing the child. Those practices are totally irresponsible for the health of the mother and her child. It can cause irreversible damage to the unborn child. It is absurd to speak of the “reproductive rights“ of women in prostitution,"

https://www.trauma-and-prostitution.eu/en/2018/06/19/the-german-model-17-years-after-the-legalization-of-prostitution/

If you’re on mat leave, who pays?

The pimps and brothels, according to the BBC story.

Jesus Christ I've never read anything so horrific! Those poor women and children!

I hope every man who pays for sex gets fed feet first through a wood chipper. Not very likely if it's legalised, though.

The BBC story gives a quote about prostitution being a "social service" relieving loneliness.

An international study in 2010 found that over 50% of men who visit prostitutes are married or in a relationship with a woman. That was the ones who said so - how many more lied about their relationship status?

Is CA herself involved in any way in prostitution? And if not, why not?