Republican Congresswoman bring forward Bill to ban transwomen from female facilities in Congress

[Hoardasurass]

The quoted comments from the congresswoman are brilliant

First trans member lawmaker blasts GOP after bill blocks bathroom use https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14098953/nancy-mace-trans-lawmaker-bathroom-capitol-hill-sarah-mcbride.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Bahahahahaha.

Funny.

I don't know why PinkChesnut didn't just go for the 'report to MN' option...

This is spot on and it's great to see it so clearly articulated and evidenced (even though the evidence is grim).

This is what so many women on here have tied themselves in pretzels to try and say without breaking the eggshell rules of not harming men's feelings.

Langcleg, formerly of this parish, was banned for trying to explain the obvious safeguarding loophole.

I will say that some 'tru trans' transsexuals have tried to stand up to the anti-safeguarding nightmare but have been viciously punished for doing so, much like the women who've tried to speak up.

Goodness me, young people seem to be so narcissistic they have lost all sense of decorum. In my ancient opinion there's no such thing as a great selfie, with the possible exception of an amusing self-mocking one.

Is this a byproduct of ubiquitous porn, or just social media? There was a time not so long ago that modesty was considered a virtue. Now it's all self promotion and display, including displaying to the whole world what used to be reserved for intimate relationships.

As an aside, every public toilet I've been in has had terrible lighting, either dingy or really harsh, usually fluorescent.

I do think selfies in the loos are quite a big thing with young women.

Because they're often dressed up on a night out, have had drinks, are in there with friends, there are mirrors to pose and touch up, and it's a separation space/ break from the mixed sex social space.

I don't do this myself as I'm a middle aged woman so a quick hand wash and checking my skirt isn't tucked into my tights suffices, but it's silly to argue girls don't do this.

Girls have always bonded over dressing up, playing with beauty and fashion and doing this separately from the boys. The loo selfies are a modern extension of that.

This is why the TWs want in on the women's loos for the full 'girlie' experience.

I don't think it's helpful to say there is no female hanging out and bonding going on in loos, which now might involve selfies, but instead should argue those girls have a right to have a space for their antics separate from men just because they want to.

It matters because her actions have context and do not occur in a vacuum, and cause harm to cis women and girls in other ways.

For over a century, until a few years ago, societies had public bathrooms split by sex, the men with urinals, the womens with sanitary bins. Worked well, although women were often unhappy with the long line for the womens.
If a man went into the womens, women asked them to leave and if they didn't, the women called for help and the man was removed.
Male cleaners always entered politely and it was signposted a male cleaner was present.

Worked fine. Was safe and dignified for both men and women and assaults and voyeurism were a lot less than in mixed sex facilities.

But now, the same setup is 'harmful for women and girls'?

Why? It worked for over a hundred years. Are men now all so nice that they never pose a risk to women but women are now so vicious that they pose a risk to other women? Or is this comment just unfounded and meant to scare?

The more I think about this the more it annoys me that we have to argue safety and dignity to get men out of spaces instead of just being able to say: we like having this seperate space so no you can't come in.
Even if it was just to chat, put on lipstick or take selfies.

Mary Harrington argues we erroded that argument when we argued against male only spaces and maybe it's time to return to recognition that it's good for the sexes to have some spaces to just hang out in seperate from each other if they want to.
The loos on a night out were such a space.

Just a quick thing about bathroom selfies. I'm not a big selfies taker, I rarely have my 'phone on me, or charged and I'd be likely to drop the thing, have my thumb or cover over the lens or have it the wrong way round. Having established my lack of expertise I can say girls taking selfies in the women's toilets are taking pictures of themselves. The male perverts take pictures of the room, with themselves on the periphery. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not calling McBride a pervert, he took his picture as he did to show the room as an act of defiance. The similarity to the pictures that the men take* who are wanking in the ladies is unfortunate but unavoidable.

*obviously this does not include the pictures that they take under the partitions.

Development charities usually have access to single sex toilets as the first thing they do to ensure girls can access their human right to education. They know girls need single sex spaces, it's the same in the UK and USA. Girls in developing countries are the same, any other position is racist.

What's happened is that girls in the UK and US are considered acceptable collateral damage to ensure men with fetishes get validated.

Still waiting for the research study on attendance of girls in the UK in schools with single sex vs mixed sex (including by stealth) toilets. I bet that'd be interesting and informative. Given the obsession with attendance statistics you'd think such a well known fact as girls needing single sex toilets to be able to access education might be considered as one of many reasons why attendance is falling. But obviously everyone is far too busy pretending the emperor isn't naked to bother with common sense and solutions that might actually help girls.

We campaigned against men-only bars, nightclubs, sports clubs and exercise opportunities, networking groups, etc. Areas of public life from which women were unfairly excluded, or spaces in which rampant misogyny was indulged.
We did not campaign against men-only toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards or therapy groups, etc. (In fact, I believe - I may be wrong - that women started the Shed initiative to get men talking to other men about their problems.)

Totally different.
Some of the things in the first list were not worth campaigning against, some were. We were successful in some cases, not in others.

I agree that it is a worthwhile tradeoff to accept that men are deserving of their own spaces "just because they want to". Both men and women can benefit in different ways from such spaces.

Outside of my hardline stance on gender identity issues I'm a "leave me alone liberal" and feel that people should be free to associate with whomever they please, and the balance between inclusivity and personal freedoms has probably strayed too far from where I would like.

Just a quick thing about bathroom selfies. I'm not a big selfies taker, I rarely have my 'phone on me, or charged and I'd be likely to drop the thing, have my thumb or cover over the lens or have it the wrong way round. Having established my lack of expertise I can say girls taking selfies in the women's toilets are taking pictures of themselves. The male perverts take pictures of the room, with themselves on the periphery. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not calling McBride a pervert, he took his picture as he did to show the room as an act of defiance. The similarity to the pictures that the men take* who are wanking in the ladies is unfortunate but unavoidable.

Excellent point.

The male selfies are clearly showing off that it's a women's toilet.

Yes the male selfies are obviously for a diffrent purpose, but there were lots of people on here claiming that women don't take selfies in the toilets.

I think this misses a point about how some young women use loos, why men want in on it and why we should be able to say No.
Just because we want to.

The point is that they don't take the kind of selfies.

Same kind

I think this misses a point about how some young women use loos, why men want in on it and why we should be able to say No.
Just because we want to.

But I agree with this.

I think girls take pictures in the loos because of the lighting, to see how they look without the mirroring effect of...mirrors and because they won't have boys making them self conscious, photo bombing or generally behaving like idiots because there shouldn't be any of them in the women's toilets. It's one place where they should have some privacy. That's why they go there in addition to biological imperatives.

Exactly.

I agree.

But they pretend it's the same. Here I am just putting on my lippie/ taking a cute selfie in the loos like us girls do...

Yes some girls do that, but you're not a girl So Get Out.

Also it's young women that hang out in groups in the loos and take selfies, us middle aged women tend not to. Yet it's so often some middle aged bloke aping the behaviour of teen girls in the toilets... strange that.

So you’re arguing women should have single-sex toilets and men should have single-sex clubs where they make significant business & political decisions, network, recruit etc

I think Mary Harrington needs to think that thought through to its obvious conclusion

Bumping this. If you can stomach that video then you'll get an idea of the horror of what "bathroom" selfies can constitute. It is utterly perverted.

And to add: we need to stop trying to justify why toilets etc should be single sex. Every time we argue why we need single sex spaces there is always whatsboutism. I don't care. It's not our responsibility.

So what you're saying is...

I think Mary Harrington has thought about it 😂

I've been trying to find out who voted for and against the bill, assuming there was a vote. NM introduced the bill, but (if vote) she couldn't have had the rules clarified all by herself.

And to add: we need to stop trying to justify why toilets etc should be single sex. Every time we argue why we need single sex spaces there is always whatsboutism. I don't care. It's not our responsibility.

Agree. Women should not have to explain, justify or plead for single sex spaces, just saying they want them free of all males, no matter how said males identify or feel about themselves, should be enough. Why does women's 'No' have to be subject to any kind of explanation or negotiation? A man's 'No' isn't.

I also don't care and feel no responsibility for males who don't want to use the spaces or services for their sex, tough, not my problem sort out alternative arrangements yourself and leave women and women's spaces, services and sports alone.