US Election results

[IwantToRetire]

Kamala Harris 27
45.2% popular vote
12,768,875 votes

Donald Trump 99
53.8% popular vote
15,275,564 votes

270 to win

U.S. election results 2024 | CBC News

6/11/2024 @ 01:25 GMT

I don’t know how any person could vote for Trump apart from amoral oil executives or big tech billionaires. It does not matter what the democrats have done, Trump is just as close to insane a world leader as you can get and that was on view for all to see. This one is on all those who voted for him. If they didn’t want to vote for Harris they shouldn’t have voted at all.

Hear hear @RatitesUnite

The biden/trump election was an outlier in terms of voter participation. Biden pickup additional voters, he didnt take votes away from Trump.

Covid and the dealth and aftermath of George Floyd could have inspired people to vote. Trump probaby underestimated this, hence thinking there was something dodgy about the votes in 2020, Harris maybe thought these voters would continue to support the party. I think the party saw these additional (15 million?) voters as motivated by woke issues, therefore leaned into it.

I don't think the uneducated can't understand Harris intellect. Its that many can see that the party prioritise identity over the wealth of working class Americans. If everyone was richer, maybe they would tolerate the woke, but as it is, they were lectured and told off for not being delighted that although they were poorer, they were living in more progressive times.

Whereas Google and Meta, with their huge influence, backed the Democrats.

Elon Musk doesn’t support genderism but I think he is more concerned by the left’s attacks on free speech (and the impact of democrat policies in San Francisco hasn’t escaped his notice).

Yeah, I don't trust Elon Musk.

Trust him to do what? He will act in his own interest, why expect otherwise?

Do you trust a Google Search? Or information presented to you by Meta?

What about TikTok? Do you believe that is run altruistically of in the interest of its Chinese owners?

I don't trust Musk. Not one bit. I think it's largely about his tax interests and Trump is a better option for him on that.

But it's clear that he didn't appreciate being told he must lie and pretend there are not harms with genderism. He regards it as having brainwashed his son with extremist beliefs.

Why WOULD he continue to support a group who he regarded as supporting a belief he thought was that dangerous and harmful?

What did the Democrats offer him in terms of taxation and in terms of morality?

Think about it from his perspective. It makes sense. Of course he'd want to amplify that for his own interests. And of course he can.

People talk about 'i don't understand why anyone would vote for Trump'. You just aren't trying to understand. Try harder.

You don't have to share those beliefs to get It and why the Democrats have managed to alienate so many.

Don't assume that people are motivated by voting FOR Trump. Use the logic that many many people are voting AGAINST the Democrats who they see as the greater evil.

It's not as hard to appreciate a different world view, when you start from these points.

I think they've miscalculated but I don't think they are stupid. I think their priorities are different. They think whoever is in charge is a liar and doesn't care about them really. It's just who they think will ultimately best serve their own self interest.

I don't think tiktok is run in the best interests of its users!

Musk will, like most people, tech billionaires or otherwise, make decisions based on his own interests and what he thinks is the right thing to do. He seems to have hit on a justifiable and consistent position, regardless of the confidence and “trust” in him that others might feel.

Of course not. The only question is ‘to what extent is it being used by the Chinese state to promote their interest?’ We can rule out ‘not at all’ as an answer.

Not a chance!

I'm still not sure I'm with you here.....or get your point. Are you assuming that to be called a 'feminist' or believe in the reality and consequences of the sexed body you also have to be pro abortion? That being pro natalist or against abortion is simply to be someone who wants to re-assert or re-affirm masculine and feminine gender roles? That you have to believe in abortion on demand if you are a feminist - because that is what you seem to be saying to me.

If this is what you are saying I don't agree with that. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of american women who are high achievers and career oriented but who also have severe misgivings about abortion. For whom women's rights don't automatically have to mean abortion access; who believe instead in the inherent dignity and integrity of female people.

I don't think left wing women get to define entirely what constitutes 'feminism' or 'women's rights'. I'm sure there are some who vote Republican who area also opposed to gay marriage, but I don't think being against abortion and being anti gay are necessarily bedfellows.

I'm not sure I appreciate your judgmental tone...but maybe I'm still not getting your point.

You ae using the word 'reactionary' as if it can only be a pejorative term. That to react to things is inherently negative.Though to respond or react with rejection of some issues - especially cultural issues - is part of human and social nature.

Progressives tend to see themselves as being on the right side of history...that the arc of history and change is always for the better....and that those that reject any of that are unevolved knuckle draggers.

There is so much visceral contempt emananting from Leftists these days. They can be truly unpleasant. Ironic, because the sheer hatred that has been generated for Trump ( his way of saying things - the name calling and the ridicule he engages in and so on) is matched in every way by so many who hate him. You cannot disagree with a Leftists's point, or critique it in any way without a flurry of judgemental invective and attempts at social shaming. No alternative persepctive or values can be tolerated.

I don't think many disaffected Labour voters voted Tory...a tiny number maybe. Most voted Green, or voted for more radical Leftist parties, that is if they did not spoil their ballot. Quite a few also voted for Reform...certainly where I live.

No, the tables show significant swings to Trump virtually everywhere.....even in solid Democrat states.

Could being pro-abortion actually undermine feminism too at the other extreme? If we take the position that abortion is 100% available then being pregnant becomes purely something a woman chooses to do. The need to support and value pregnancy and consider child rearing as a load on women, or even as an outcome of rape, is removed as it was a choice the woman has made. (We could argue over ‘choice’ but we are assuming full choice here.) It changes how women who have children are perceived - it is now their ‘fault’, their choice, an action to opt into not an intrinsic part of being female.

Not sure I am making my thoughts very clear here.

Listening to the radio this morning (Absolute Radio) it was interesting to hear how the Trump win was summarised in the headlines:

"some people are concerned that Trump will tighten abortion laws and roll back LGBTQ+ rights"

I'm not sure I've got that word for word but it was definitely "tighten" re abortion and "roll back LGBTQ+ rights".

It's disappointing to see this kind of positioning. I'm no Trump fan (quite the opposite) but I can't imagine he intends to do anything with abortion. It's already a state matter, so the only intervention that could presumably be done is to remove them completely at federal level. Has he said he would? IIRC, the debate was around reinstating rights at federal level (Harris) and not doing that (Trump).

And as for "LGBTQ+ rights"....!! At some point these letters will be prised apart sufficiently well that it will be beyond obvious that "gender affirming care" is a scandal, not a "right" - and that everyday LGB people are increasingly angry at being lumped in with it all.

Not that disconcerting (or surprising) that both original candidates were old, white males in a population that is majority white, still. For example, New Jersey has the highest diversity index (2020) at 6%. Census data show 'white' people (both non-ethnic 'white' people and those of mixed 'white' heritage) make up just below 60% of the population.
I think the main factors in Harris not winning were that she was a) a woman (her ethnicity was irrelevant) and b) her policies afaics were those of the Biden era, and Biden's popularity rating is very low mainly because of his policies - it's not that everyone is angry that title IX now welcomes transwomen into women's spaces so much as that everyone feels poorer. Had Trump been a woman of any ethnicity and Harris a man ditto, it is more likely that Harris would have won - the US does not seem ready to have a female president - had Harris put forward some ideas more divergent from Biden's. I don't think abortion was an issue, since that was being voted on separately and is a state matter, not Federal.
A macho culture elected a macho man - it was the election of Obama that was an aberration, not the election of Trump.
I think the other factor against both Harris and the Democrats is a total lack of respect for some parts of the population. Harris speaks of respect for all but her respect and that of her party does not extend to Trump voters. I note she says that what distinguishes democracy from monarchy or tyranny is consent, a dig at Trump, but also at various constitutional monarchies across the globe, which do operate by consent (as in the UK). Those words signal a lack of acceptance of cultures that diverge from the US model, which is not that of a democracy but a republic; republics are not necessarily democracies as they do not need a popular elective element, only the lack of a hereditary monarchy e.g. old Venice was a republic with an elected duke).

There are those that say Barack Obama has continued to be a factor with a continuing and undue influence on the workings of the Whitehouse

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/david-garrow-interview-obama

"some people are concerned that Trump will tighten abortion laws and roll back LGBTQ+ rights"

Schrodinder’s issue - people are both absolutely not voting due to LBGTQ+ ideology but are also concern by LBGTQ+ ideology.

I feel as though the fact that so many people who said their interest was the democracy voted Trump when on the face of it, post the insurrection, he is the opposite of democratic.

I think this is highly relevant to the trans issue. Even if people didn't agree with the democrats they couldn't say without being told they were terrible, bigots, the worst kind of people. Likely they still will not say. So we can't know.

Quite!

Although of course there is no such thing as "LGBT+ ideology". There are a) LGB people, who have fought for and won equal rights b) people who are pushing a belief (an ideology) that we all have a gender identity and that this is more important than sex when it comes to legislation about sports and spaces etc c) people who are advocating to stretch point b to include anything and everything as a "right" when it comes to sexual preferences.

Unfortunately, when it's served up as a soundbite headline on popular radio stations, there's no pause for thought on how ridiculous it sounds. And even more unfortunately, many people consume their news in bite-sized pieces like this. The takeaway then becomes "Trump hates gay people and is going to stop all abortions". As revoluting as I find him, I'll stand up and challenge that description of him, unless he explicitly says either of these things. (A few years ago, Biden did say that being gay was morally wrong, or something similar... there is a clip of it somewhere).

Maybe writing this very late at night and into the morning distorted your response somewhat......but disagreeing with your interpretations, your diagnosis and your definitions is not to be " wishy washy...not very nice".

I think part of the reason that Kamala did so badly was in part because she is a stereotypical west coast leftist feminist whose feminism revolves around grievance and the politics of intersectionality. The sort of feminism that many women simply don't think speaks for them; that does not relate to their everyday lives; their lives and their roles as wives and mothers.

These are not necessarily "wishy washy" women. They are women grounded in their own experience and with their own demanding lives, who can decide for themselves what their priorities are.

We are in the UK and my 19 year old daughter's visceral reaction to the Trump victory yesterday was unbelievable. Full on anxiety, tears, shaking. She is ASD diagnosed and her teenage years have been rocky but the last couple of years she really seemed to accept her gender and is happy in here second year at uni. She lives at home and it all kicked off whilst I was at work. Her Dad was trying to lighten the situation by this set her off and she ended up storming out and not returning til quite late last night. She's involved in a large online community of animating/gaming/writing/role play. She was saying how "loads of my online friends are considering ending their own lives as they can't live with what Trump is going to do". I tried to speak to her late last night telling her that her and her friends should take things a day at a time and not to listen to the rumours. Omg it's hard work!

Its because that is what it says in Project 2025. Now, how much relevance project 2025 will have to Trump/the Republican's next government is up for debate. No-one really knows. A number of different positions were taken by Trump and Vance re abortion

• it should be left to the States
• Abortion medication should be outlawed completely (by removing FDA approval, see project 2025)
• Women should be prosecuted if they want to seek abortion in another state
• Women shouldn't be prosecuted for this
• etc

So it is up in the air. There is a lot of cherry picking from both sides going on. People that like Trump are choosing the statements that they find corresponds best with their position. People that don't like Trump/are concerned are going for the worst case scenario from their perspective. But they haven't pulled that idea out of the air.