Robert Jenrick on women's rights

[HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott]

From the webchat yesterday:

Justine MN: 'women's rights

@Ereshkigalangcleg bit of a mouthful - says: hi Robert, thanks for doing this could you explain how you would seek to protect the rights of women to
female only spaces when we need them e.g. Rape Crisis service prisons Etc she says transgender identity is one thing but biological sex is more important on some occasions for reasons of safety but also for reasons of privacy and
dignity.

Robert Jenrick:

Thank you well look let let me be very clear - basic biology and common sense matters - of course we must treat people with kindness and compassion but
we've got to be very clear about what a woman is. How we can ensure that female spaces are protected and the rights of women are properly uh supported whether that's changing rooms prisons competitive sport we've got to protect women's rights.

For my part I've always tried to do that - when I was a minister who had responsibility for example as housing secretary I changed the law so that no new public building can be built in this country unless it has female toilets, and I've always stood up uh for what has I say what I would call Basic biology and common sense. I'm a dad after all to three young daughters I want to ensure that they grow up in a country which recognizes those things and that we
don't blur the lines here and ensure that biology sometimes gets you know
falls by the wayside.

Justine Mumsnet:

'What about those who medically transitioned and have a gender recognition certificate though I mean you are you suggesting they should also be excluded on the basis of the biological sex they were born with or ...

Robert Jenrick: 'you this is where it becomes tricky. Right, well I think we have to be clear what what a woman is, and what a transman is. I think we have to treat people with kindness and compassion and it is right that people find happiness and dignity in their lives however they wish but that does not mean that a trans man should be using women's toilets, changing rooms, should be alongside women in prisons, should be competing alongside women in competitive Sports.

I take a strong view on this I appreciate that this is a contentious issue and not everyone will agree with me but that is my position. I think that is the best way that we can protect women like my daughters my wife my mum, the women that
I want to see have their rights protected now and in the future.

Justine Mumsnet:

'Okay. just to be clear I think you mean trans women not trans man yeah you mean, you know you you mean a - a woman, someone who transitioned to be a woman.'

Robert Jenrick:

'Yeah'.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_live_events/5197593-zoomchat-with-robert-jenrick-mp-tuesday-29th-october-5pm

Typical clueless Tory,
middle-aged, middle-class, mediocre man.

A PM (or potential future PM) should be someone who is well briefed, with an in depth understanding of the issues under consideration and an ability to debate those issues thereafter. Coming on to Mumsnet, where undoubtedly the topic of women's safety will be brought up, and being confused about basic definitions smacks of "fail to plan, plan to fail"

It doesn't fill you with optimism when he can't get the sex right of the people he's saying should be excluded on the basis of that sex.

Jenrick is a poundshop Farage, lacking his intellect, wit and charm.
Which is really saying something.

You know how sometimes you are weighed down like the proverbial camel?

and then a little ridiculous mote of straw of no weight whatsoever comes floating down

you watch fascinated as it twirls around and you think ‘oop, hope that’s not coming my direction’

and it’s just so utterly ridiculous that your knees do a wobble as you try not to start laughing

because you have that on-the-verge-of-demented feeling that you won’t be able to stop

That.

interestingly tho I have begun to feel that breaking into hysterical laughter at every stupid utterance might actually be the appropriate response

Jesus H Christ.

Yeah. Absolutely bloody clueless. That's what using incorrect language gets. Total utter bafflement.

Thank you. When did this exchange take place, roughly? MN should chapter such long videos.

This is the same Robert Jenrick that has expressed his support for the rapist Donald Trump. Support for the presidential candidate that doesn't want women to have control over their own bodies.

I think his commitment to women's rights is pretty clear.

Oh dear. Basic understanding fail.

Come on, be fair. He is trying!

It is so infuriatingly common, that people mix up "transman" and "transwoman". It makes discussion impossible.

Justine spotted it thankfully and corrected him, but I was really confused by his comment.

It just makes me really think fuck it even more, and ditch "trans anything" descriptions for people just stick to man or woman because that's all we are at the end of the day.

34.44

I don't laugh I just fucking explode.

I'm well past hysterical laughing. I'm at chainsaw levels of rage.

Transmen rarely If ever cause issues and offence.

Transmen don’t force their way into men’s jails or seek to compete against biological men.

It is ridiculous he can’t get the terminology right.

I'm not saying, he, a politician shouldn't have a better understanding of the issues here, he should, but I can't be angry about him not using the gaslighting language that got us here in the first place.

It is so infuriatingly common, that people mix up "transman" and "transwoman". It makes discussion impossible.

It is infuriating, but at the same time "trans man" makes much more sense as a term to describe a man who identifies as a woman. The introduction of the term "trans woman" to describe people who are male is deliberately designed to obfuscate reality.

At least Kemi is very much on top of her brief when it comes to understanding this issue. Let's hope she's the winner on Saturday.

Thank you for posting the transcript @HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott

But did he actually mean transmen or transwomen? I'm not sure. I think he took Justine's prompt but had actually meant transmen.

I haven't watched the whole thing though (yet). I watched Kemi's and really loved it, I agree with so much of what she said, even the less crucial stuff like about breastfeeding.

Edit - actually I'm not sure now, rereading it, as he mentions women's sports. Maybe he did mean transwomen

At least he is open that men should not be using women's services, regardless of how they present or what they believe.

He is an example of the consequences of the deliberately confusing language pushed by TRAs.

He is also an example of the idiocy of not preparing. Or possibly of the attitude that women are frail and should be protected, but not taken seriously.

He meant biological males who identify as women. They are indeed men. He used the word "trans" because they identify as transgender.

He's just not used to the terminology that the trans lobby prefers.

He probably didn't prepare much, thinking our opinions don't matter to his leadership contest.

Sadly he's probably right, how many mumsnetters are fully paid up tory members? I don't know, maybe not many.

It was a bit daft, but I can see where he went wrong. TRAs do everything they can to hide what they are doing and confuse people: What does 'trans masculine' mean? How would anybody know what sex person that was referring to?

I know mumsnet don't like the term, but I much prefer 'trans identified male' as it's clear to everyone ... but of course clarity is the opposite of what TRAs want.

He has been living in a time capsule then...! Everyone I know, of all ages and political leanings, knows what these words mean.

I'm getting an itch of cynicism...is it possible that he made this mistake deliberately? So that gender critical women will think he supports women, but just got muddled by the terminology, while the trans allies will think he supports their belief that transmen shouldn't be in women's spaces.