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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Parkrunners! Parkrun survey

209 replies

Parkrunners · 18/10/2024 10:25

If anyone is a parkrunner and has a survey from them, I'd urge you to fill it in. There are two free text sections which provide an opportunity to tell them exactly what the impact of their sexist policy decision not to protect the female sex category has been. They have clearly commissioned this survey to gather data on the mental health and motivation and self esteem and self achievement benefits of Parkrun, as well as its competitive benefits and self-competition benefits, but none of that has been protected for women and girl runners who have effectively been told that Parkrun cannot be bothered to collect accurate sex category data for them, because we somehow don't count. What is it meant to do to the motivation and mental health of female runners to be told we are so second class that our sex category doesn't matter and can be dispensed with?

As a middle aged woman, I am particularly pissed off as the only way I can tell if my running performance is declining, maintaining or improving is to compare myself to others in the same age or sex category. And I can only do this if the sex category is protected.

I am really sick of Parkrun both knowing full well the importance of age and sex data for running and for their Parkrun model, and knowing full well they cannot remove this as the men would not stand for it, whilst also pretending none of this matters and they are just a fun little social run when they need to pretend its ok to record runners under gender identity. Parkrun are trying to maintain a position of both recording this data and pretending it doesn't matter. This is nonsensical.

OP posts:
CheeseWisely · 18/10/2024 10:38

Done ✔️

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 18/10/2024 11:59

Is there a way of getting to the survey if you have emails from them deactivated, do you know? I am registered but switched off emails a while back. Also does it look as though it's been sent to everyone, or just a select group? Thanks!

AuntieStella · 18/10/2024 12:04

Point of detail - the main way you can tell if you’re improving is by looking at your age/sex percentage.

That is calibrated against the record times run in affiliated events (not parkrun)

And yes, parkrun has very firmly said that as an institution it is about participation and its view on inclusivity. Last time round it even said it would go away with publishing results completely if that was what was necessary.

CheeseWisely · 18/10/2024 12:09

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 18/10/2024 11:59

Is there a way of getting to the survey if you have emails from them deactivated, do you know? I am registered but switched off emails a while back. Also does it look as though it's been sent to everyone, or just a select group? Thanks!

It does say not to share the link as it's unique to the recipient but not sure if it's gone out across the board or to a group.

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 18/10/2024 12:10

Thanks. I have reregistered (at least for now), so will see if I get one but may have missed it. DH may have one though!

Stretchedresources · 18/10/2024 14:24

"As a middle aged woman, I am particularly pissed off as the only way I can tell if my running performance is declining, maintaining or improving is to compare myself to others in the same age or sex category. And I can only do this if the sex category is protected."

Yes this. I didn't answer it quite as well as this. But hopefully they got the gist of it. I'm slowing as I age. But I need to know whether I'm still in the above average healthy range for my age and sex or something is going wrong. And I like checking the ultra speedy parkrunner times and seeing where the first woman is. Although I realise that may not always be a woman now.

MrsJamin · 18/10/2024 17:05

I don't get the emails either as I can't stand their stance. Please can everyone respond who has this link.

WomanWithoutNeedOfPrefix · 18/10/2024 17:46

I responded and had a lot to say in the free text box :)

Even the diversity questions at the beginning asked for gender (but gave the options male/female/prefer not to say) with no option to say 'I do not have a gender (you sexist bunch of idiots)'.

Elizo · 18/10/2024 17:50

As a middle aged woman I can see if I.m improving by looking at my own times. This is a big fuss about nothing. Park run has been instrumental to improving my mental health. I must do the survey to tell them

AbsolutelyFemale · 18/10/2024 17:57

Thanks OP. It is really fucking annoying that manspreading has even infiltrated what should be female statistics.

I'll definitely give them my reasons for wanting the female category to be protected. However it's impossible sadly for them to guard against bad actors (and these men pretending to be women surely fit that category 😄😅)

Stretchedresources · 18/10/2024 18:05

El but you could still be slow compared to an active person your age. I don't care if I'm getting a bit faster in myself, I need to know how fast the speedy women my age are so I can keep pushing myself. If I'm only thinking about my own time I'll be complacent. (I've only been first in my age category twice, I'm not a leader of the pack or anything).

Stretchedresources · 18/10/2024 18:08

woman this is the address of Sheffield Hallam for survey comments [email protected]

DuesToTheDirt · 18/10/2024 21:01

Elizo · 18/10/2024 17:50

As a middle aged woman I can see if I.m improving by looking at my own times. This is a big fuss about nothing. Park run has been instrumental to improving my mental health. I must do the survey to tell them

But over the course of a few years your times will almost certainly get slower. You might be getting worse, or you might actually be improving relative to what would be expected. You can't measure this by looking at your own times, only by looking at statistics for your sex/age.

TofuTart · 18/10/2024 21:30

Elizo · 18/10/2024 17:50

As a middle aged woman I can see if I.m improving by looking at my own times. This is a big fuss about nothing. Park run has been instrumental to improving my mental health. I must do the survey to tell them

Middle aged woman park run member here too and completely agree with you.
I love Park Run for the fact it's non competitive, open to all.
I check my times by my past weeks to see if I'm improving.
What other people are or aren't doing is nothing to do with me, if I wanted that I'd go do a competitive race instead of trying to demand or complain that a whole organisation bends its ethos and stance for what I want.
Go find something more suitable if you want to get all competitive about a fun run.

Elizo · 18/10/2024 21:31

You seriously think that this particular issue could affect that? The % weight is against 1000s. I run for health benefits, it’s a community run, come one, come all. Anyway what can PR do about it.

Elizo · 18/10/2024 21:32

TofuTart · 18/10/2024 21:30

Middle aged woman park run member here too and completely agree with you.
I love Park Run for the fact it's non competitive, open to all.
I check my times by my past weeks to see if I'm improving.
What other people are or aren't doing is nothing to do with me, if I wanted that I'd go do a competitive race instead of trying to demand or complain that a whole organisation bends its ethos and stance for what I want.
Go find something more suitable if you want to get all competitive about a fun run.

Exactly, no interest in anyone else other than we are all running in a community. I’d rather someone was there getting the benefits of the run, however they show up.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 18/10/2024 21:50

Elizo · 18/10/2024 21:31

You seriously think that this particular issue could affect that? The % weight is against 1000s. I run for health benefits, it’s a community run, come one, come all. Anyway what can PR do about it.

It doesn't bother you that the age grading is essentially mixed sex as they use the nonsense of gender?

support.parkrun.com/hc/en-us/articles/200565263-4-5-Age-grading

Elizo · 18/10/2024 22:19

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 18/10/2024 21:50

It doesn't bother you that the age grading is essentially mixed sex as they use the nonsense of gender?

support.parkrun.com/hc/en-us/articles/200565263-4-5-Age-grading

Correct. I am getting to my 100th run and very excited about that, getting a bit faster after a slow summer, shaved 30 seconds off my time last week. A friend had time away due to cancer and is now back walking the course. These things excite me. This is the point of PR. I could understand it for competitions but not a community run

Theunbearablelightnessofbeing · 18/10/2024 22:30

I honestly don’t think they will revert back, its focus has shifted, they have to get sponsored/ funded somewhere. I don’t think it is really clear what Park Run is now. Yes, it’s a community event, free to all but in reality it is a hodgepodge of competitive men and boys whipping around in sub 20 minutes, with impressive female runners standing out while there are walkers, dogs, small children and miserable teens forced to do their DofE volunteering by a faceless academy. It’s a bit weird really. Frankly, it’s a mess. But it gets people moving.

Am I annoyed about the self id in categories, yes, but equally paid competitive events list non-binary as an option (I have been tempted to see if I get a higher finishing position) and you can self-select ‘gender’. If I was an elite runner then I would be livid. I am past the stage of ever being good but I am annoyed but I know they are cheating if they aren’t honest about what category they belong to. It’s odd as well, as the runners I know (just hobby runners) wouldn’t want to win/ move up in their age/sex category based on deceit, I mean why train when you can swap from being a male aged 25-30 to a female aged 35 plus? Why not change your age too? Park Run won’t check.

TofuTart · 19/10/2024 02:40

Yes, it’s a community event, free to all but in reality it is a hodgepodge of competitive men and boys whipping around in sub 20 minutes, with impressive female runners standing out while there are walkers, dogs, small children and miserable teens forced to do their DofE volunteering by a faceless academy. It’s a bit weird really

You see weird, I see open and accessible to all who wants to get out and exercise on a Saturday morning, regardless of age, fitness ability, sex, gender, whatever.
As pp said, can help mental health too by getting our into the fresh air.
Which is why I think it's so great.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 19/10/2024 02:51

Correct. I am getting to my 100th run and very excited about that, getting a bit faster after a slow summer, shaved 30 seconds off my time last week. A friend had time away due to cancer and is now back walking the course. These things excite me. This is the point of PR. I could understand it for competitions but not a community run
What is the point of bothering with it though? It just makes an absolute nonsense of the age grading for biological females.

It's so fucking stupid. As someone who works with data and statistics in my professional life it absolutely boils my piss.

They can still have all the community element without the gender shite.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 19/10/2024 02:53
  • You see weird, I see open and accessible to all who wants to get out and exercise on a Saturday morning, regardless of age, fitness ability, sex, gender, whatever. As pp said, can help mental health too by getting our into the fresh air. Which is why I think it's so great.*

Age grading by sex rather than gender isn't going to change any of that. It'll just make it fairer for females who care about the stats.

TofuTart · 19/10/2024 03:19

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 19/10/2024 02:51

Correct. I am getting to my 100th run and very excited about that, getting a bit faster after a slow summer, shaved 30 seconds off my time last week. A friend had time away due to cancer and is now back walking the course. These things excite me. This is the point of PR. I could understand it for competitions but not a community run
What is the point of bothering with it though? It just makes an absolute nonsense of the age grading for biological females.

It's so fucking stupid. As someone who works with data and statistics in my professional life it absolutely boils my piss.

They can still have all the community element without the gender shite.

They can still have all the community element without the gender shite

Trans people exist though, I can't get worked up about them running in a fun, non competitive, open to everyone run.
It's "gender shite" to you but not to everyone else.
I'd rather have it open to all and the competitive out the front runners comparing themselves to others the minute they get home and huffing at those not "taking it seriously enough" or whatever pissing off to a more competitive run more suitable for their needs..

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 19/10/2024 03:31

Trans people exist though, I can't get worked up about them running in a fun, non competitive, open to everyone run.
They do but we separate sports by SEX for a reason. Transwomen are able to register in two other categories rather than corrupt the female stats.

It's not fair and not right. And we will get it changed eventually so why not just sort it now. .

Needapadlockonmyfridge · 19/10/2024 06:05

Done - thank you for flagging the survey, OP.