Parkrunners! Parkrun survey

[Parkrunners]

If anyone is a parkrunner and has a survey from them, I'd urge you to fill it in. There are two free text sections which provide an opportunity to tell them exactly what the impact of their sexist policy decision not to protect the female sex category has been. They have clearly commissioned this survey to gather data on the mental health and motivation and self esteem and self achievement benefits of Parkrun, as well as its competitive benefits and self-competition benefits, but none of that has been protected for women and girl runners who have effectively been told that Parkrun cannot be bothered to collect accurate sex category data for them, because we somehow don't count. What is it meant to do to the motivation and mental health of female runners to be told we are so second class that our sex category doesn't matter and can be dispensed with?

As a middle aged woman, I am particularly pissed off as the only way I can tell if my running performance is declining, maintaining or improving is to compare myself to others in the same age or sex category. And I can only do this if the sex category is protected.

I am really sick of Parkrun both knowing full well the importance of age and sex data for running and for their Parkrun model, and knowing full well they cannot remove this as the men would not stand for it, whilst also pretending none of this matters and they are just a fun little social run when they need to pretend its ok to record runners under gender identity. Parkrun are trying to maintain a position of both recording this data and pretending it doesn't matter. This is nonsensical.

@Helleofabore But you have just whinged because you still haven't said what you want Parkrun to actually do about this and how this will change things for the better? Of course everyone's not going to then go 'oh, we should have supported female runners, ok then let's now magically make everything completely impossible to cheat'? No one wants anyone to cheat as it is!

What's your suggestion for an effective protest, then?

Or are you basically just saying suck it up, it's only a few women disadvantaged, which is how we got into this mess?

@teawamutu Well, protesting by not being involved in Parkrun at all would make more sense than 'I'm still going to run but I'm not going to volunteer' Hardly voting with your feet, is it? 🙈

The fact that female people do know when a male runner has been registered as a female runner, and they report this on social media, means that any of these male people identified as registering in the category they should not be eligible for. That is of course, if parkrun change this for the future.

So those people can simply be recategorised and placed in a uncategorised grouping. Same with any person who has been found to be registering in a category they are not eligible to be in, eg age.

So we are all just whingers. Good to know.

Aren’t you now whinging because someone didn’t come up with a solution that you feel works while you just deride those pointing out the issues instead of coming up with solutions of your own? Oh. That’s right, you don’t care.

Suck it up then. Yeah, no thanks.

Or - radical notion - parkrun could act to protect the women's category and stop being dicks.

@teawamutu Not at all, I'm just surprised that you can't see that 'I will do the fun bit (eg run) but not the less fun but (eg volunteer so that other people can run and Parkrun can continue) isn't only an ineffective protest but also hypocritical.

They could do that teawamutu.

But Parkrun seem to be existing in a state of alternate reality. At the same time that they keep making declarations that they are not competitive, they continue to provide ranking data. All while at the same time they declare they are inclusive when in fact, they are allowing male people to negatively impact on female people's results that diminishes the positive outcome for those female people who disagree with the policy.

They started it. See Helleofabore, above.

They trumpet that parkrun is free for all, and indeed most people never volunteer.

I did, until they showed me that they don't care about women. So I've returned from 'active supporter' to 'consumer'.

If they want my labour back, I've made clear my terms. No, it won't work. But I'm not prepared to be a mug for misogynists any longer.

Ok, @teawamutu I don't think we will quite align views here, which is ok.

I'm sorry that you see volunteering as being 'a mug' and don't see that the ones who benefit from your 'labour' are your fellow runners (all of them) but I do hope that you continue to enjoy running each week because, as we do both agree, on the whole it is a wonderful thing.

We could also add in that the survey is actually assessing the positive impact on mental health - Parkrun is so overwhelmingly positive that it just feels like you could pick your battles

Yes, the positive, mental health aspect of a free, Saturday morning fun run for all is by far the most beneficial aspect.

entering under their gender rather than sex: there are nowhere near enough cases of this to affect the age grading (averaged from a huge number of runners)

You can only enter parkrun in your gender category, as none other exist

The age grading will always be completely unaffected as it is calibrated against the world record times for the age and sex, and qualifying races for those are all held under international athletics rules

(And toilets at parkrun are those provided by each landowner, and indeed they do not have to be provided at all. So if the toilet issue is seen icw parkrun, that's nothing to do with parkrun policy and would have to be taken up locally with the individual provider. The 5k app is good at showing which parkruns have loos - does it better than the parkrun website, I find - and which don't, if availability is important to a runner considering a new course. But there's no info on how the loos are laid out)

Yes - fair sport for women really shouldn't be hard or controversial should it?

You would think so. Yet we are whingers for expecting it.

@Helleofabore "The fact that female people do know when a male runner has been registered as a female runner, and they report this on social media, means that any of these male people identified as registering in the category they should not be eligible for. That is of course, if parkrun change this for the future.

So those people can simply be recategorised and placed in a uncategorised grouping. Same with any person who has been found to be registering in a category they are not eligible to be in, eg age.

So we are all just whingers. Good to know.

Aren’t you now whinging because someone didn’t come up with a solution that you feel works while you just deride those pointing out the issues instead of coming up with solutions of your own? Oh. That’s right, you don’t care."

It's not a case of not caring at all. In fact, I've agreed with you that people entering in any category other than the correct one for them IS cheating. Equally, I have expressed that I care about Parkrun: I care, as many people keep saying on here, that the more likely result of this issue could be that public results are scrapped completely. I care that this doesn't happen.

I haven't 'come up with a solution' of my own, because I don't personally feel, in 14 years of running and volunteering, that the impact of TW entering has been detrimental enough to risk changing the current format. As many people have pointed out, for example, TW entering does not influence age grading. I do feel that sex should be protected in professional, competitive sports, but that's not what Parkrun is.

Either a separate category or ensuring that people only enter via biological sex is a great, ideal aim. In reality, I think trying to find people and highlight them on social media because you believe them to be in the wrong category is a risky approach. You have suggested that the recategorising is 'simple': I don't believe that it is but, if you do, maybe that's something that you could volunteer to help with and take up with Parkrun directly, rather than through this university conducted survey about the positive impact of Parkrun on mental health?

I apologise if my use of the word 'whinge' was too harsh. It was in response to people complaining that TW entering Parkrun as females affects age grading, which it does not. Trying to use this excuse does indeed feel like moaning for the sake of an agenda, without really understanding what age grading in Parkrun actually is.

It is not just age grading that people are talking about, they are also talking about ranking. The very results that Parkrun publish on the respective websites and what they send out.

Or is not a valid argument and people are just 'whinging' some more?

"I think trying to find people and highlight them on social media because you believe them to be in the wrong category is a risky approach."

I am not talking about 'finding people on social media'. I am referring to the fact that runners already know who is entering the female category as a male because they are discussing it on social media.

There are people who are telling others they are negatively impacted on social media. Therefore, those athletes that have that information can report what they suspect to the organisers who should then have a process (one that Parkrun have agreed on) to investigate - if Parkrun changed their policy.

This requires that Parkrun actually prioritise female athletes needs over a group of male athletes' demands first. Because, I am certainly not suggesting any Parkrun group do anything unless Parkrun has changed the policy.

Surely, if male people fully understand that if they are ineligible to enter the female category then they will stop entering those runs. And if they don't stop, then they should expect whatever the policy will be.

"rather than through this university conducted survey about the positive impact of Parkrun on mental health?"

And surely if women are feeling that they have experienced negative impacts on their mental health because of these Parkrun policies, this survey is exactly the means to feed this back?

@Helleofabore

"It is not just age grading that people are talking about, they are also talking about ranking. The very results that Parkrun publish on the respective websites and what they send out.

Or is not a valid argument and people are just 'whinging' some more?"

No, really happy to discuss ranking too, if you like. This week I was told in my email that I was the ninth female out of a field of 140 total parkrunners. Looking at the Parkrun results page will show me that I was ranked 36 overall. So 35 people ahead of me - male and female but no longer any way to filter this on the website so I actually have no idea who was male, who was female, nor how many females entered in total.

The previous week I got a similar time but went to a massive parkrun, so I was told I was the 100+ female. My ranking went down massively because there were more total entrants.

Once I finished in the top 5 but the weather was rubbish so not many people turned up. I know from both my time and age grading, however, that I actually got a PB and did pretty well overall against others in my age category.

This is why I'm struggling to see how a TW entering as a female skews my ranking any more than any of the other factors I've just mentioned. Surely I'd need to be running with exactly the same people at the same Parkrun every single week for this to be the case and for me to deduce any meaningful correlation between my ranking and my ability / progress?

And yet, female runners are telling you that they are not happy and you continue to dismiss them.

Most people couldn't give a flying shit, yet you continue to dismiss them, and think that your trans obsession is more valid?

Lovely. Now prioritising female people in sport on a feminist board is a ‘trans obsession’.

So, I will ask the question again, how many women have to be unhappy before their needs are prioritised over keeping some male people happy?

But we're not talking about sport in general, we're discussing, very specifically, Parkrun. You mention women's 'needs' without saying exactly what they are relative to this situation. You've mentioned age grading and ranking and we've explored how age grading is completely unaffected and how ranking is affected by numerous things. Not 'wanting' people to cheat in any way is completely understandable: no one wants that. But, as a woman, I don't feel that my Parkrun 'needs' are currently being compromised. I think Parkrun is a phenomenal organisation, run entirely by volunteers, that is overwhelmingly benefiting so many people. I don't feel anyone owes me anything - I'm grateful that it exists, which is why I also volunteer, to give back and help it continue.

Completely agree. I look at my own personal time and the age grading, none of which are remotely affected. I barely ever look at the ranking- the number of park runners differs wildly every week!

@Helleofabore I guess another option that might work for you would be to start a parkrun yourself? There is some good advice here:

blog.parkrun.com/uk/2019/04/10/how-do-you-start-a-parkrun/

The chance of a TW both entering and entering as a female is probably quite low (like I said, not encountered this in 14 years across many parkruns myself) but, should this happen and compromise your 'needs', you could then, as RD, have a direct discussion with the individual about it? It's a tough role but when the vast majority of people are supportive, it can be very rewarding.

I don’t believe I mentioned age grading at all except to point out that other points had been raised. Perhaps you have me confused with other people you called whingers. Maybe we all have blended together.