Parkrunners! Parkrun survey

[Parkrunners]

If anyone is a parkrunner and has a survey from them, I'd urge you to fill it in. There are two free text sections which provide an opportunity to tell them exactly what the impact of their sexist policy decision not to protect the female sex category has been. They have clearly commissioned this survey to gather data on the mental health and motivation and self esteem and self achievement benefits of Parkrun, as well as its competitive benefits and self-competition benefits, but none of that has been protected for women and girl runners who have effectively been told that Parkrun cannot be bothered to collect accurate sex category data for them, because we somehow don't count. What is it meant to do to the motivation and mental health of female runners to be told we are so second class that our sex category doesn't matter and can be dispensed with?

As a middle aged woman, I am particularly pissed off as the only way I can tell if my running performance is declining, maintaining or improving is to compare myself to others in the same age or sex category. And I can only do this if the sex category is protected.

I am really sick of Parkrun both knowing full well the importance of age and sex data for running and for their Parkrun model, and knowing full well they cannot remove this as the men would not stand for it, whilst also pretending none of this matters and they are just a fun little social run when they need to pretend its ok to record runners under gender identity. Parkrun are trying to maintain a position of both recording this data and pretending it doesn't matter. This is nonsensical.

So here is an alternative view. It was only very recently that parkrun doubled down on this issue and stopped showing course records in the UK after complaints. Is this correct?

Therefore there are some women on this thread that have contributed their time and efforts in building park run as it has been built to be now. And they are the ones being dismissed as whingers and are now being told to go start their own runs.

Sure, people can and probably will end up starting their own organised runs. But this suggestion does highlight the broader issue quite well. Thanks for making it.

Parkrun can remove the sex from a runner so they run as neutral. They have started doing it.

And just for clarity, I was referring to the fact that it is female people who have dared state that they as runners in parkrun have felt that they have been dismissed by the organisers of parkrun to prioritise male runners and that like other groups, clubs and services the women who volunteered and assisted in the building of that group, club or service are the ones expected to leave and start again. This is a pattern that seems to be becoming the norm. And it seems parkrun is following suit.

Not 'female people', generally. I, and many other women, don't feel in any way compromised. Nor do I feel that my voluntary efforts have been in vain. I only offered starting a parkrun to you, specifically, as you feel upset about things and that your 'needs' aren't being met. I thought this might be a practical solution to help you - something you already said that I haven't offered you. What I have asked, but you have failed to answer, is what very specific 'needs' are not being met currently. I'm afraid I can't help you without this, but I think it's becoming clear that that's not what you want from this.

That is interesting stretched. So for those male people who want to run and who respect that female people should have their times comparable to only other female runners have a third option so they don’t have to run as a male runner?

I think it became clear from you declaring women who felt different to you were whingers that you simply dismissed what women were saying. But you continue to do you. At least you have stopped denigrating those who disagree with you.

And your suggestion was that anyone who disagrees with you should start their own run.

@Helleofabore I used the word 'whinge', as a verb, once and then apologised for doing so. You have repeatedly referred to this. I have not dismissed you. I have asked you exactly what needs are compromised and you haven't answered 🤷🏻‍♀️

Most men couldn't give a monkeys, but most women could. They don't say so, though, because they know they'll get accused of being transphobic/obsessed/whatever.

Note: a phobia is an irrational fear. People are not irrationally scared of trans people. In fact they don't fear them at all. They just don't want male bodied people skewing results, podiums and sporting chances for female bodied people.

With parkrun, the issue really came to peoples' notice because some trans women were holding female course records at individual parkruns.

@Helleofabore From the parkrun website:
In all countries we operate in, parkrunners can record their gender as male or female, or alternatively they are free to keep that information private by selecting “prefer not to say”.
Further, in the majority of parkrun countries we also offer a fourth option of “another gender identity”.

https://support.parkrun.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005339137-1-3-Gender-categorisation#:~:text=In%20all%20countries%20we%20operate,of%20“another%20gender%20identity”.

Even using it as a verb was you dismissing other people's opinions. You have engaged with me because I have continued to post. Others have stated their opinions which were just as dismissed by your using the word.

hell yes. It's on some results. I checked to make sure the first actual female was listed as first female and they are. The neutral runner just has their position in the race, they aren't taking a women's place. Although there was a hoo-haa for it to finally get to this fairer stage.

Thank you

You state you personally hadn't come across a trans runner.

MANY others have. And they felt cheated. Perhaps if you had their experience, you would feel compromised.

But we're not talking about sport in general, we're discussing, very specifically, Parkrun

Exactly

I barely ever look at the ranking- the number of park runners differs wildly every week!

That's a good point - there could be say 30 female runners one week, and 60 the week after.
It varies wildly week to week.
Comparing your times to other runners to "see if you're getting better" or "are the fastest" seems a bit futile as you're not going to know as the amount will be different to last weeks!

@TiredEyesSoreHeart
*"You state you personally hadn't come across a trans runner.

MANY others have. And they felt cheated. Perhaps if you had their experience, you would feel compromised."*

I don't understand how I would feel compromised, though? They wouldn't affect my time, because that's personal to each individual runner; they wouldn't affect the age grading because that's not how it works; and they wouldn't affect my ranking any more than it is affected by how many people happen to run on the day.

I personally prefer to see where I come against other female runners and of course in any race there are different number of runners each week just like in any race anywhere - Saying that is like saying why rank any race anywhere as there are different numbers of runners so the rankings don’t matter. I want a single sex female category. Just one male runner in the female category affects where other females will place. It’s simply not fair as they are male.

I agree with others and we either have no results or accurate results. I agree that ParkRun shouldn’t be included in Run England rankings although my husband held the national ParkRun record one year but he was a doing well nationally at all distances at that time and just entered ParkRun with our daughters.

To the person who said I must be running in England Athletics events if I’m top 10% of all female runners. I don’t and don’t want to anymore. I used to about 20 years ago when I was a member of a running club and ran more than I do now but now I just run for fun but I do like to weirdly see where I come against other runners and I don’t like the female category being mixed sex. Yes ParkRun is great for all kinds of reasons and I wouldn’t mind if all placings and rankings disappeared and we just got a time. I just think it’s crazy as it is at the moment with the female category being mixed sex.

@Mangoandbroccoli

I'm confused, why does park run log females and males as categories? What's the reasoning?

Competitive runner here - was a very early adopter of parkrun back in 2007 when it was the Bushy park time trial. Have since run and volunteered most years but sad to say I don't bother with it any more after their nonsense about refusing to protect the female category and then doubling down and removing course records and things like the sub 20 list. I find it annoying that the results feed through and affect things like your runbritain handicap which otherwise consists of UKA licensed events where the category is protected. I wish they would remove parkrun from runbritain rankings or at least amend the algorithm so parkrun doesn't count for your national ranking (which i do care about because I am trying to improve it)

Luckily for me there are loads of licensed RunThrough events near me so I have shelled out on a season pass and switched to doing those. Not an option for most people though due to cost / access issues especially if you live more rurally.

*Zestylemo *

because despite what some people on here try to push people like to see their positions. I’ve been to about 200 park runs (including juniors) and only twice have I ever seen a female win so they put the runners position in their need category on the results so women can see if they were the fastest women. (Except they can’t necessarily now because some bloke may have decided he’s a woman and run in the female category)

Helleofabore

The prefer not to say option works well. We have a trans girl (under 10) at my local JPR.
They have their results listed but don’t affect the rankings by sex.

Thanks. And thanks to others too.

@Mangoandbroccoli
I'll be waiting for Mangoandbroccoli to explain the reasoning for bothering to put the categories into male and female.
Waiting for the reason........

We are, but as already discussed on this thread, grass roots sport also matters. If young girls are beaten by people who should be competing as boys, they'll give up.

Girls already give up sport.

So it does matter. parkrun is a well known and important route into elite and lifelong sport.

@TofuTart
So what's the reasoning to categorise male and female then?