Kemi Badenoch

[CassieMaddox]

Looking unlikely to win the Conservative leadership now and has gone very quiet about women's rights/the EA during her campaign.

Current favourite is Cleverly.

I know she had a lot of support on here so just wondering what people thought had gone wrong for her?

I think the Tories need to be able to re-articulate core conservative principles and go forward from there. What is the vision - and in a positive sense. What are the core values?

You tell me. From 2010-2014 all I saw was "fuck the poor. Are you ill ? Sorry about that. Need childcare ? Here's some places you can pay for it (run by our mates). Crime ? Well if it's crime you want we have lots of that. Infrastructure ? What's that ? Can you spell it please ? No we don't do that. Hey, look at these taxes ! Are you old and rich ? Great ! Old and poor - fuck off. Are you young and rich ? Great. Young and poor - fuck off".

Seems to cover it.

It is not just Labour voters, though, is it....it is those who voted Lib Dem rather than vote Tory, as well as those who voted Reform. A lot of people lent their vote to Labour for the first time because they hoped Labour would improve their lives after the struggle of the last few years.

A lot of Labour voters spolied their ballots or voted for more radical Left candidates; and a good number also voted Green. They are probably lost for good.

The electorate is no longer as predictable as it once was.

I said re-articulate; get back to core values which have become submerged or lost in more recent years.

I just have.

Why, why do you think the core conservative principles are. And (much more pointedly) is that what the conservative party itself thinks ?

This is where single issues can scupper logic - as pointed out upthread by others.

She’s just what the Conservative Party needs. She’d make mincemeat of Two Tier Freebie Kier and Ange as Leader of the Opposition.

Kemi Badenoch is one of the most impressive, clear and articulate MPs I’ve heard lately. The party has a great weapon here but will they be brave enough to use it.

I think it all depends on who is in the final two. I gather that Badenoch is very popular with the Tory membership, and if she's in the final two, she is likely to win. However, she is less popular among MPs, and they might club together to make sure she's not in the final two (ie Jenrick supporters might lend their votes to Cleverly to make sure he's in second place).

My own view on Badenoch is that she has been one of the very few Tories to be absolutely clear and unequivocal on the issue of gender self-ID. So in that sense I think she's quite brave - she has stood up for what she believes in, which is more than you can say for the rest of them. On the other hand, she does seem to have some pretty unpalatable right-wing policies which I'm less enthused about.

As you noted, demographically, FPTP is irreparably broken. And the way it's broken won't favour the Tories who will wish they hadn't poo-pooed the chance to change it in 2011.

There was a referendum in 2011. The british public rejected proportional representation. By about 70% as far as i remember.

Badenoch is undoubtedly the most articulate and intelligent contender the Tories have. She is also an absolute loon on economics who would make Thatcher look like Corbyn.

We have a lot of party activists on here since trans issues made feminists a viable voting target. The change from FWR pre-2020 is very noticeable.

The section of Tory voters who would have been pro Kemi Badenoch have now seen Reform doing all the Kemi stuff better and have switched their allegiance to Farage's bunch.

She picked a niche, Reform nicked it from her and are doing it more bluntly to an eager audience who above all else want the blunt instrument, single issue, 'speaks the ordinary man's truth' approach.

The Tory party have been and remain a squabbling, self serving, venal organisation with a proven, 14 year, record of utter failure, lies and corruption. They've systematically worsened the life of everyone living in this country except the very rich.

As for she/them holding Starmer to account - well when he was in opposition watching him run rings around all Tory comers at PMQ was a thing to watch. They just don't have the calibre of person who can hold his feet to the fire. He's better at it than all of them.

If they doesn't find the centre line, attract competent politicians and set out a clear, united, sensible, decent path forward they're finished and she with them.

Not you...the Conservative party. Merely venting anger and saying " fuck" does not offer much. Principles and vision are important. Part of Starmer's problem is that he doesn't have any. Not that people can notice, anyway. And the Tories problem has become that they no longer are clearly articulating any over-riding vision beyond 'Stop the Boats'.

I'm not a natural conservative voter, but I'd suggest the principles are probably along the lines of 'Self improvement' 'personal responsibility', 'Family values', the individiual before the state, social cohesion via a route of strong values based upon social democratic principles and cultural integrity.....and so on.

If you think Starmer has no vision or principles you aren't listening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-69066785

A lot of ex Labour voters also voted Reform. It is not just about middle class people in the shires, but about working class people in the cities.

Lockdown radicalised a lot of working class people. They don't like the state dictating to them how they live their lives. Telling them what they can or cannot say; telling them where they can or cannot go, and trying to socially shame people for not being vaccinated and so on. They know that men cannot become women.

Starmer did not run rings around anyone. He's not capable. Even natural Labour voters find him utterly inadequate. In trying to move to the supoosed centre he no longer seems to stand for anything. It is just a load of fudge and waffle.
Traditional Labour voters are thoroughly disappointed with him, and many despise him. They want him to articulate clear Left/Socialist values and vision - but he doesn't and can't.

Yes, it's this.

The maternity pay comments were really not a good look for her, while so many women are struggling on SMP.

Traditional Labour voters are thoroughly disappointed with him.

I'm a traditional Labour voter and 12 weeks in to a 4 year government is too early to judge. Time will tell and he hasn't had that.

I'm not disappointed with how the riots were handled, or the GP and train drivers strikes.

What are his principles. What is his vision? Can you clearly articulate it?

There was a referendum in 1975.

your point is ?

Really?
https://x.com/GMB/status/1797536066917765428/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1797536066917765428&currentTweetUser=GMB&currentTweet=1797536066917765428&currentTweetUser=GMB

Agreed

Why are you stating this as fact?

Lockdown radicalised a lot of working class people. They don't like the state dictating to them how they live their lives. Telling them what they can or cannot say; telling them where they can or cannot go, and trying to socially shame people for not being vaccinated and so on.

Some working class people, in fact some people of all classes felt that.

Many people were happy to be socially responsible and get vaccinated etc.

This thing of constantly pitting "working class" against everyone else is demeaning to working class people, divisive and ridiculous because it leads to the likes of Badenoch and Jenrick trying to burnish some non-existent working class credentials. Very transparent at this point.

I live in a very left wing city - and many people here despise him. Many picketed the recent Labour Party conference. Many voted for alternative Left candidates, spoiled their ballots or voted Green. I'm an ex Labour party member. I spoiled my ballot. But i did so because of the capture by gender ideology and the disgusting way that it has treated women over the last six or seven years.

The young people who joined Labour because of Jeremy Corbyn have become even more radicalised and despise Starmer. Even people like Owen jones have gone and now actively campaign agiainst Starmer's Labour.

My father voted Labour because he wanted change. He's a life long Labour voter and trade unionist but lives in a Tory stronghold. Labour got in, though, because people wanted their lives to improve.

My father said after two weeks he was already "very disappointed" by Labour - and he is one of the people who will lose the winter fuel allowance - for whom it matters. Labour has also floated removing the single person council tax reduction. -which will, again, impact him.

Train drivers who were already earning £65K - well above the national average appear to many, to have benfitted at their expense - and that is without any commitments to get rid of spanish practices and inefficiencies.

I an stating this because I live in a working class, Left wing city and have observed this for myself. Reform did very well in many constituencies in my city - becaue many people see it as anti establishment. Reform came second place in many constituencies.

I live in a very left wing city - and many people here despise him. Many picketed the recent Labour Party conference. Many voted for alternative Left candidates, spoiled their ballots or voted Green. I'm an ex Labour party member. I spoiled my ballot. But i did so because of the capture by gender ideology and the disgusting way that it has treated women over the last six or seven years.

That really showed them, didn't it ?

I'm not sure what you mean?

Principles and integrity matter to me, and to many.....and I'm not prepared to vote for anyone who doesn't display those.