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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

663 replies

Autumnleavesareslippery · 07/10/2024 09:13

I've name changed for this, have been a member for 19 years since pregnant with DS. I'm going to try and be factual as I'm in shock and dealing with a whole host of mine and my children's emotions. Yes I'm using 'he' here as none of us have got our heads around this. I'm trying to be very honest in how I feel and really need some support from people who have more of an idea about how to handle this than me.

DS (19) came home from uni on Friday. On Friday night at about 11 pm in the family chat he declared he was transgender. He informed us what he was called. It was an unusual name choice for a 19 year old - that of someone perhaps born 150 years ago. Think Enid. He told us he'd known for years.

All of us were in shock. I have DD (17) and DD and DS (both 14). I sent a message privately to him thanking for letting us know as I wasn't quite sure what else to say. He didn't read it and remained in his room. Didn't even bother with the usual teen response of a thumbs up.

Saturday and Sunday he acted completely normally, like nothing major had happened and he had told us he was vegetarian now or something. He seemed calm and relaxed. He looked exactly the same - a 6ft 2 broad shouldered man.

He then came downstairs to get a lift to the train station dressed as what I can only describe as a stereotype of what someone might think a woman looked like. Badly done make up. An odd dress that didn't fit. And started talking in a completely different soft 'feminine' voice and doing strange things with his hands that he must have deemed 'female'. He had lace like gloves on. It looked so outdated and strange.

The best way to describe it was he looked like Dame Edna or the character out of little Britain from 20 years ago in that the clothing was odd and it seemed almost designed to get a reaction. But he appeared to be deadly serious and nonchalant about it. A woman would have been clearly mocked if she dressed like it. It just leaves me wondering whether this is what he views women as?! Not that he knows any women who would act like this - he's surrounded by many women who express themselves in multiple ways but not in an Edwardian lady about to collapse way.

I drove him to the station trying to make small talk about the weather and his course and came back to everyone sat staring in disbelief. He's never said anything, acted in any way 'feminine' (whatever that means). He's at a RG uni, studying a science subject with 3 As at A level, and has organised himself a part time job. I only say this because life seems to be going well for him, rather than a potential response to something.

He is however autistic.

DD 17 is furious and says he's making a mockery of women and that woman is not a costume. She says he better not be going in female only spaces.

DD 15 looks stunned and keeps asking why he thinks he can just become a woman and what he thinks that means. She can't identify out of periods etc etc. DS 15 is laughing in disbelief. DH just looks completely confused and keeps muttering about getting loads of tattoos when he wanted to shock his parents thirty five years ago.

I genuinely don't know what to do next. Please bear in mind I'm in shock, had only just 'got over' my first born leaving for uni and all the emotions that brings.

I want to support DS19 with whatever gender expression he wants. When he still looked like him (and didn't appear to be 'dressed as' a mockery of women) I was shocked but we just thought ok, this is him experimenting with finding himself or whatever. But now I'm really worried about him and his future and whether others will look at him and think wtf. I'm also angry at the very (sorry to stereotype) 'teen boy' way he told us - late at night, no response, informing us what he was called rather than perhaps asking 'could you call me'. No consideration of the impact but I guess that might just be being 19.

I agree with what both of my daughters are saying. How do I say this because it then directly criticises DS? Do I accept he is an adult, has made his choices and my care and focus should be on them? I can't gaslight them and tell them they're wrong.

I'm now worried he's going to go into female spaces, as a clearly visible six foot plus male. This would make me angry.

He is at a university where I know lots of his lecturers (I am an academic in the same field). I know many are gender critical. Do I mention it to them first or let it be the elephant in the room?

I don't know what to say to my 85 year old mother. I think she will be very shocked and worried. I'm trying to work out if we have to tell her (she doesn't live nearby).

I don't know how much to talk to him or challenge this. I feel a kind of grief. I'm worried he's going to take hormones or do something irreversible.

We all dislike the name / think it's a very odd choice - which makes me feel very alienated from him.

And at the end of the day he's my 'baby' - I want him to be happy. I don't want people to criticise him. I want to support him but how do you do that when you question so much what he is doing? It wasn't the fact he declared himself to have a different gender but rather what followed - the declaration of name, strange clothing and fear of him going in women's spaces.

I also do absolutely realise he is an adult and can make his own choices and face the consequences. He has his own life (albeit he's being financially supported by us).

I guess it was just so sudden.

Any advice on what to do next would be gladly received.

OP posts:
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ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 07/10/2024 11:35

I wish I had a good answer to your question, or at least some workable advice, but the sad truth is that one child’s gender identification completely tore apart my family. The other 2 kids (one older, one younger) are completely bewildered/horrified by it all several years into it (and in my family it’s the slightly less controversial FtM transition, so no arguments over female-only spaces although my daughter feels devalued by her stepsisters rejection of female-ness, and my son is insulted by the parody of male-ness his sibling performs).

At least you, your DH and your other children all seem to be on the same page, so there is no conflict within the home (some teens get really defensive of their newly identifying sibling causing a generational divide, and some parents have very different ideas on how how to interact with the transitioning child).

I think Eresh’s advice on page 1 is good - be honest with your children, you can defend your son’s choice to wear clothing associated with the opposite sex (with the same ‘weather and occasion suitability’ caveats that apply to everyone, so no anime inspired miniskirts and thigh high socks at great auntie’s funeral and a compulsory big coat in a British winter) whilst sympathising with your DDs on the actual choices being made and how that makes them feel.

Unfortunately, part of the common trajectory for older adolescents and young adults who suddenly ‘come out’ as trans around the time they leave home is that they go ‘no contact’ for a time period. This happens to both trans affirming and trans skeptical families and even if you yourself were a perfect trans ally by all yardsticks, push back from a sibling or a grandparent who forgets the new name is often enough for the whole family to be frozen out.

I would try to connect with your DS over your shared past and his preexisting interests (low pressure texts like pet photos and memes and talking about the uni course) and leave discussions about the new identity to one side as much as possible.

When they are 18 there is absolutely nothing a parent can do regarding the medical/surgical aspects of transition except ask gentle questions. He’ll probably want to ‘DIY’ hormones (very common in his peer group) so you can try and steer him towards engaging with an actual GMC registered doctor instead (ie a private gender clinic that isn’t the dodgy as fuck Gender GP) but you won’t be able to stop it.

The (slightly) good news is that the early stages of MtF medical transition are physiologically slower and less risky than FtM and as long as he doesn’t have thousands of pounds in his bank account, he won’t be able to access surgery for at least 2 years privately or within 4-6 years NHS.

Sincere best wishes for your whole family.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 11:35

I was clear that Bayswater were more supportive of the OP's and her children's gender critical views than Dadjoke's offering and so was the other pp. The OP chose to post on the Feminism board for a reason.

ThisIsAlmostHalloween · 07/10/2024 11:36

DrunkTinkerbell40s · 07/10/2024 11:14

Sadly, I don't think MN is the best place to get advice. They don't know your family, they don't know your son, and they don't necessarily have any real experience of people with gender misalignment.

Ultimately, whatever is going on here you need to support him. It's not easy coming out as trans. It is not easy, at 6ft 2, 'dressing up' as a woman. He will be ridiculed. He will be subjected to abuse. So no one decides to do this on a whim.

Some of the suggestions on here could lead to a mental health crisis or worse.

If it were me, I would sit him down and talk to him, alone, without anyone else. How long has he felt like this. I would tell him he could dress in women's clothes, but in a style where he's more likely to fit in. Why has he chosen that name etc Just give him some guidance, book him a doctor appt, book him some therapy to talk about his feelings.

Do not ridicule him, or tell him to stop. You could lose him that way. Support him and he will choose his own path xx

Really?

You're going straight to the emotional blackmail of 'losing him' if she doesn't go along with this ridiculousness?

I'm surprised there's any trans people about considering how fragile and suicidal they ate constantly made out to be.

I have DIRECT experience of this and affirming isn't the way to go.

Also interesting how tou say she must support him but you use the word son and male pronouns throughout.

Scutterbug · 07/10/2024 11:37

@DadJoke has written a great post on this thread. I would be led by your daughter. She feels comfortable to come out around her family which shows she values you all.

sorrythetruthhurts · 07/10/2024 11:37

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Crouton19 · 07/10/2024 11:37

The Gender Dysphoria Support Network has a group for siblings.

https://genderdysphoriasupportnetwork.com/

The Gender Wider Lens podcast has several episodes about men identifying as trans and I recommend downloading them to listen to in the car, to get a feel for what the underlying issues might be. Your other DCs are old enough to hear them as well.

I went through this about 3 years ago with my brother (in his 30s so not a youth but quite an immature man). His version of his story/journey was and is full of contradictions. There is lots of information on this board which might help you probe some of the underlying issues a bit more.

Gender Dysphoria Support Network - supported by Genspect

The Gender Dysphoria Support Network (GDSN) offers support to families of individuals affected by gender dysphoria. The GDSN offers regular online emotional support, allowing sharing of experiences in order to resolve common challenges. We provide unde...

https://genderdysphoriasupportnetwork.com

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 11:37

I wish I had a good answer to your question, or at least some workable advice, but the sad truth is that one child’s gender identification completely tore apart my family. The other 2 kids (one older, one younger) are completely bewildered/horrified by it all several years into it (and in my family it’s the slightly less controversial FtM transition, so no arguments over female-only spaces although my daughter feels devalued by her stepsisters rejection of female-ness, and my son is insulted by the parody of male-ness his sibling performs).

That sounds really hard Flowers

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 07/10/2024 11:37

Sending you un-Mumsnetty hugs. Sorry I have no advice at all about sibs, my DC is an only. My DC was a few years older when they came out as trans, also maleborn, also has autism but already living independently. As part of the Big Reveal - DC had said nothing and we saw no signs beforehand though DC lived with us all through lockdowns! - DC also told us they had already changed all their documents and were starting hormones.

I didn't want to say anything to anyone at work for quite some time after the Big Reveal. Then I felt able to tell one or two other colleagues who are my friends and also they are parents (that mattered a lot to me). I don't hide it (I use DC's chosen name and pronouns and occasionally I need to explain to people who knew I had a DS) but otherwise I don't talk about it at work. It's too emotional and too personal and I bring my professional self to work.

One thing: I decided I could not be responsible for my adult DC's behaviour around women's spaces. If DC asks my opinion or advice DC will get it, otherwise DC is adult and must figure it out for themselves. AFAIK DC keeps out of women-only spaces.

Give yourself time to process. If your DC has been thinking about this for a long time then you don't need to rush into saying or doing anything.

ThisIsAlmostHalloween · 07/10/2024 11:40

Scutterbug · 07/10/2024 11:37

@DadJoke has written a great post on this thread. I would be led by your daughter. She feels comfortable to come out around her family which shows she values you all.

Daughter?

He comes downstairs in a victorian frock ONCE and that negates 19 years of being her son??

Get a grip

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 11:40

I didn't think anyone under 30 was as transphobic as you're describing your daughters as.

They aren't transphobic, and I think you underestimate young women and girls. They're not all willing to be NPCs in male lives.

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 07/10/2024 11:41

ElleWoods15 · 07/10/2024 11:28

My own view is that none of the support websites that have been mentioned is neutral. As I have said. The PP that suggested Gendered Intelligence was open about this; not all other PPs suggesting Bayswater et al have been similarly open.

Your point is?!

There is no such thing as a ‘neutral’ support website, they are all either affirming or skeptical.

At least the skeptical ones allow parents to voice their entire range of emotions, negative to positive. You get kicked out of the affirmative ones if you say anything that isn’t celebratory.

OrlandointheWilderness · 07/10/2024 11:42

Your family sound lovely OP. I suspect that no matter how things end up in a few years you will still have a lovely family. I don't envy you this challenge- I actually am not sure how I would address it.

Why is it transwomen never dress like me!?! Jeans and a hoody, no make up and nails. No fancy hair etc. I would have far, far less of a hard time getting my head around it if a true reflection of womanhood was represented, but no. It's always a stereotype. A bit of a strange one in this case too I'm afraid.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 11:43

Kind of like how people aren't homophobic if they're under 80.

I mean, that's not true, is it?

OrlandointheWilderness · 07/10/2024 11:43

Your Daughters sound fab though. Intelligent and questioning.

HaddyAbrams · 07/10/2024 11:43

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Is this a joke? Plenty of people under 30 don't believe you can change sex (which isn't transphobia)
And tons of under 80s are homophobic. Including a lot of TRAs.

ElleWoods15 · 07/10/2024 11:44

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 11:35

I was clear that Bayswater were more supportive of the OP's and her children's gender critical views than Dadjoke's offering and so was the other pp. The OP chose to post on the Feminism board for a reason.

Feminism does not equal Gender Critical @Ereshkigalangcleg. FFS. But I don’t want to get into an argument with you about that, because that is not what this thread is about.

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 07/10/2024 11:46

ThisIsAlmostHalloween · 07/10/2024 11:36

Really?

You're going straight to the emotional blackmail of 'losing him' if she doesn't go along with this ridiculousness?

I'm surprised there's any trans people about considering how fragile and suicidal they ate constantly made out to be.

I have DIRECT experience of this and affirming isn't the way to go.

Also interesting how tou say she must support him but you use the word son and male pronouns throughout.

Edited

Absolutely.

the sort of rhetoric you are replying to is presented as supportive of transitioning people but actually leads to increased social isolation and suicide ideation.

RVEllacott · 07/10/2024 11:47

I've been there - it's shit and you have my sympathy, it's the hardest thing I've ever dealt with. I joined the Gender Dysphoria Support Network which is an online support group for parents and they've been my lifeline. I wouldn't affirm the "new identity" as it isn't a neutral act and you will contribute to gaslighting your other children. Check out "gender - a wider lens" on YouTube as I think they'll probably have some stuff for siblings.

Adolescent brains don't mature until mid 20s and most young people who experiment with gender identity desist. Keep him away from adult gender clinics and any of the ghouls who might encourage him to make permanent changes to his body and check that he understands that he can never be female and that there are lots of different ways to be male.

ElleWoods15 · 07/10/2024 11:47

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 07/10/2024 11:46

Absolutely.

the sort of rhetoric you are replying to is presented as supportive of transitioning people but actually leads to increased social isolation and suicide ideation.

Seriously? You think denying a person’s gender identity decreases the risk of social isolation and suicide ideation?? Wow.

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 07/10/2024 11:48

ElleWoods15 · 07/10/2024 11:44

Feminism does not equal Gender Critical @Ereshkigalangcleg. FFS. But I don’t want to get into an argument with you about that, because that is not what this thread is about.

How can you be a feminist without being critical of gender?

Gender literally means stereotypes socially associated with sex!

those stereotypes were used to prevent women from fully engaging in education and the workforce for centuries (and still are, with varying degrees of progress made across the globe).

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 07/10/2024 11:49

ElleWoods15 · 07/10/2024 11:47

Seriously? You think denying a person’s gender identity decreases the risk of social isolation and suicide ideation?? Wow.

No, I think espousing ideas like ‘would you rather have a dead son or a live daughter’ increases suicidal ideation amongst gender distressed people.

ColinTheGenderMinotaur · 07/10/2024 11:50

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 11:43

Kind of like how people aren't homophobic if they're under 80.

I mean, that's not true, is it?

It’s a luxury belief.

kolalumps · 07/10/2024 11:51

IMO, you should try to support him 100% while probably crying inside.

If he looks parody of a woman, try to help him look more seriously woman. You will learn a lot by sitting with him and solving the problem of their “look”. Probably googling for tips, and dress makeup hair tricks you already know. How do dress comfortably while also feeling “right”.

They might appreciate the mum-time, and support. There’s probably nothing worse than feeling alone & alienated in own home.

I’s keep away from hormones for now.
—-
I do have experience w young man who at 6th firm started wearing the girls uniform which school was ok with, until he started sexing it up with shortened skirt, loud makeup, fishnet tights, tight open blouse. All of which were against school policy. All thought he was embarking on a trans journey, but was telling all he was gay. Which gave school admin confusion about is gay valid reason for girl uniform? He was asked to follow either girl or boy uniform but the loud makeup, thighs, shirt skirt, open blouse were all violations. He did change schools, and when see him now he’s mostly dressed boy, but with makeup. Really, he looks striking now, rather than sexy man-Brittney.
So, imo ds on a journey. If you have an open dialogue and try keep “neutral” and supportive, you can stay involved and help if needed.

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 07/10/2024 11:52

Sorry to say this but your son may have developed a sexual paraphilia AGP. You may want to research it.

I really wouldn't go down that particular rabbithole. He has an ASC and that explains it well enough. The OP doesn't need to scare herself.

PrimalLass · 07/10/2024 11:53

I would tell him he is being ridiculous.