Moira Deeming in Australia - thread 3

[TheSandgroper]

Following on from busy threads 1 and 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5172553-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-thread-2-from-australia

Keep on discussing, ladies. Change never happens in silence.

Yes, neither do I.
I do know plenty of people who think that worrying about "capture" of schools and a deep state infiltration of the civil service by transactivists (a la Liz Truss) is a culture war.

Or the very polarised emotive language described upthread.

We can agree to disagree how useful those kinds of strategies are.

I think more and more people are getting to the point where they are realising that so much of the media needs to be fact checked for accuracy and bias. And are now aware that remaining unquestioning has created this issue.

Hmm. However, Cassie has been open in a previous post that they are of an ‘equal opportunities’ variety of supposed feminism,’ which appears to give the same weight to men on the issue. Rather like a self professed vegan who also eats meat.

Maybe more weight to men, even.

Interesting being likened to Maria Miller, I am guessing that is being used as an insult. Ah well, when all else fails throw out insults.

I'm voting for the word 'trope' as the latest most abused word. That's just a Left/right trope is a deliberate call to disengage your brain, don't ask questions or you're a gullible fool for being taken in by nefarious forces.
Safeguarding and women's rights are under real threat and the media have lost all sense of their role as unbiased reporters and investigators.

What I actually said was I'm equal opportunities in that I am equally happy to criticise men and women, especially if they are taking actions that harm women.

I wish people wouldn't misrepresent me to try to prove some kind of point. Although I do always take it as a compliment that posters appear to be taking notes.

No, just Maria Miller famously used the phrase "women purporting to be feminist" about GC feminists.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/maria-miller-says-only-hostility-to-transgender-report-came-from-women-purporting-to-be-feminists-a6830406.html

Just found it interesting you would use the same language to a GC feminist like me. Weird how quickly its possible to move from being on "the wrong side of history" for being GC to being on "the wrong side of history" for being not GC enough

We can agree to disagree how useful those kinds of strategies are.

But you don't agree to disagree Cassie.

OK. What word would you prefer to use as shorthand for harmful stereotypes used to denigrate a specific group of people?

Just found it interesting you would use the same language to a GC feminist like me.

I am not convinced you are GC or a feminist Cassie, describing women's rights as a culture war.

I'm voting for the word 'trope' as the latest most abused word.

Completely agree. It's a thought-terminating cliche.

Bit of a blast from the past - 2016

What does 'spill' and 'spilling' mean in this context please?

Please stop misrepresenting what I said.

Let me just pick myself up off the floor at the thought of you purporting to be aghast at misrepresentation.

I don’t think what you say now is at all what you said in your post about ‘equal opportunities’. Why don’t you go find the full post so that we can have a good look at exactly it is what you said. We could clear up if there is any misrepresentation of what you said. It would be more than it’s worth for me to look back through all the muckraking.

I now need to go and create a wiki page saying the moon is made from blue cheese. There might be a court case in need of sound evidence like that.

Yep. I've been actively following this debate since before then, which is why the repeated insinuation I'm not a GC feminist makes me laugh, a lot.

I've seen the movement change from a broad church of women fighting for change across a broad political spectrum, to fractured infighting about who is or isn't acceptable as GC. It's sad.

A leadership 'spill' is a change of leadership.

It is where one leader is challenged and loses and a new leader takes place.

It is a word we use for occasions such as a change in PM or just in opposition. That is how it is used in Australia in any case.

So have I Cassie, so have I. Maybe you could reflect a bit on why others doubt you are a GC feminist. I see you a bit like someone who claims to be a vegetarian and then eats fish.

Here you go cailleach
I don't think I said anything at all about supporting men or welcoming them. Can't see why you would equate what I said to "a vegan eating meat". Perhaps you can explain.

I've seen the movement change from a broad church of women fighting for change across a broad political spectrum, to fractured infighting about who is or isn't acceptable as GC. It's sad.

Which of course the constant attacks, denigration and deeming of KJK being unacceptable by you and others has played no part in.

I am very clear why some doubt me, thanks. It is entirely related to the fracturing of the movement described above and the requirement for someone to meet a stringent list of criteria in other people's eyes before they can be accepted as "GC".

Ironically its also a "purity" approach that involves a requirement for virtue signalling and I tend not to like them.

The difference is I've never claimed KJK isn't part of the GC movement.

I think she's more of a hindrance than a help and I think her behaviour in constantly going on about "socfems" amd the "managerial class" while getting increasingly involved in American Christian Right politics is a large cause of the fracturing in the GC movement and that's an opinion I'm entitled to hold, same as the people on here who think she is "a stone cold legend" in spite of her marmite approach.

Seeing as we're still going off in different directions, away from the main subject of this thread, it's interesting to me how much disdain there is for Wikipedia as a source of information. It certainly has its weaknesses, granted. But I came across this earlier & find it to be an interesting & fairly helpful piece of information - the actual website itself has links to sources so if anyone needs to go a bit further in terms of evidence to support what's said here, just post 'sealioning' into the search engine & you'll be able to look at the links. I will say, I haven't bothered to.

"Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter. It may take the form of "incessant, bad faith invitations to engage in debate" and has been likened to a denial of service attack targeted at human beings. The term originated with a 2014 strip of the webcominc Wondermark by David Malki, which The Independent called "the most apt description of Twitter you'll ever see"."🙂

I can't quite put my finger on why I felt the need to get more clarity on this term. But, anyway, it seems interesting. It's completely irrelevant to the discussions on Moira Deeming's defamation case, and the evidence that's come out of the trial thus far. But as there no limit to what's being discussed, I thought I'd throw this in here just for the hell of it.

As you were 🙃

I've seen the movement change from a broad church of women fighting for change across a broad political spectrum, to fractured infighting about who is or isn't acceptable as GC. It's sad.

I thought you believed feminism is a left wing project.
You are not a spectator sighing on the sidelines. You are an active participant. You choose to post antagonistic responses from every angle you can find.
People are not 'accepted' as GC they either are or aren't. It is you who have chosen to denigrate women putting themselves in line of fire. You basically want to celebrate another GC woman who doesn't share your opinions lose a significant case (to the movement as well as herself).
This isn't a discussion I'm being drawn any further into.