COE Rapporteur rights of LGBTI says transwomen are women and should be included in groups for lesbians

[IwantToRetire]

(Have only just seen this via LGB Alliance and know no more than what they have said.)

On Thursday 3 October 2024 a report on “Preventing and combating violence and discrimination against lesbian, bisexual and queer women in Europe” will be presented to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, of which the UK is a member.

The report will be presented by Rapporteur Beatrice Fresko-Rolfo. The report is 16 pages long and could be mistaken as a press release from the captured lobby group ILGA Europe or the TQ+ inclusive ELC – EuroCentralAsian Lesbian Community. In fact these are the two organisations who are quoted most frequently in the report.

The Rapporteur mentions LGB Alliance only once – saying:
“I also agreed to a virtual bilateral meeting with representatives of the LGB Alliance, with whom I expressed my disagreement on their decision to exclude lesbian transgender women from the LBQ women’s group. I reiterated that transgender women are women.” Section 3 para 20 ^https://pace.coe.int/en/files/33732/html^

Read their full statement at https://lgballiance.org.uk/pace-report-our-evidence/

They finish:

We invite you to contact any of your own country’s Representatives at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe and draw their attention to this shocking example of bias in the democratic process.

(Is this the COE whose European Court of Human Rights we are all supposed to place such trust in?)

Lesbians must have protected spaces, and i do not believe a man can be a woman.

This seems so straight forward and realist based.

Its one think young children getting caught up in fantasies, but when legal systems and political bodies do, it makes the future very frightening.

Most of these bodies are not legal bodies, they are international quangos full of twats being paid to be twats.

The only legal body who has any influence in TERF islands domestic Laws is the ECHR.

LGB Alliance are quite excitingly beginning to stretch their influence into Europe and it will take time for them to embed influence and generate/ make links with other groups.

i am hopeful not fearful.

IMO we are watching the tide retreat but early stages.

My thoughts exactly.

I mean, having some sort of supranational authority is kind of the point. Human rights law essentially is supposed to protect individuals against abuses by their own government, so it makes sense that when you think your rights have been infringed you need to seek redress from somewhere else higher up.

This.

You'd think they'd hear all these people talking about how the UK should withdraw from the ECHR and, you know, fucking tone it down a bit.

They need to decide if they are for conversion therapy or against it. Pick one and stick to it, instead of pretending they are against it then demanding it for gay women.

I hope you are right.

Most of these international overarching bodies that were created to protect, are captured at present and advocate for men at the expense of women’s rights as well as demanding access to medication and mutilation for children.

I assume targeted infiltration and under-the-radar lobbying are the root cause of this, but it’s disconcerting every time a new group reveals itself.

@PriOn1 I agree with you, however international human rights has been developed and embedded by numerous treaties and interpreted and embedded by the international courts over many years. These captured forums and floras are lobby groups, who can huff and puff all they like.

They have no influence over the ECHR, which is totally separate from the EU. Courts do not have policies about what the law is or should be they just interpret what the law is, case by case.

I wish that an international human rights expert could help us in our understanding but of course they are all far to busy picking on Alison Bailey et al.

It’s always women on the receiving end of this sort of crap.

America - we’ll decide what you can do with your bodies in terms of reproductive rights.
Africa - we’ll cut your genitals off to make you clean.
Afghanistan - we’ll deprive you of education, make you stay at home and walk around in a bag of cloth.
Ireland - we’ll starve and beat unmarried mothers, lock them up in “laundries” and sell their babies.
Canada, Australia, COE - we’ll say who is a woman and can have your rights and access to your spaces and privacy.

So sick of the “authorities” bullying and harming women.

Having studied history, I'm thinking we've lost a century. We're back in 1924, fighting for women's rights. But this time it's not just men we're fighting, it's men pretending to be women too. So - are they fighting WITH us? No, they've got their own agenda.

I fully intended to come on here with an erudite and detailed rebuttal. However, it's late and I'm tired so I will precisely the gist of what I would have written. Here goes. Dear Rapporteur -get fucked.

precis-fucking auto carrot.

But there are no mechanisms really for citizens to participate in choosing representation at these international levels.

So it's fundamentally flawed.

That's the same of any juridical system.

Oh yes you’re so right. Each country has developed its own socially acceptable way to mistreat women

The Rapporteur has opened the door to anyone with a brass enough neck to claim to be a lesbian. An ostensibly straight woman in a relationship with a tw can now be a lesbian in clown world, whether or not she wants to be. Although women in relationships with tm wouldn't be, neither would the tm!

Many lesbian groups have gone underground purely to escape the harassment and annoyance of men. Many of them did try first to be kind, but it didn't work because the kindness and tolerance and respect needed to be mutual, and men don't give that in this political movement, they just take.

The LGBT+ have effectively disenfranchised and driven out actually homosexual people, and what you have left is a political movement grouped around mens rights activism and the oppression of women and the destruction of homosexuality. Sex with animals and other 'kinks' - yay, brilliant! Wanting to be homosexual and open about it? Die in a grease fire.

Am adding this here, but maybe it deserves its own thread.

Open letter to members of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe regarding the draft resolution and report “Protecting the human rights and improving the lives of sex workers and victims of sexual exploitation” prepared by the Parliamentary Committee on Equality and Non-Discrimination

Harmful terminology marking an ideological approach to prostitution
The report uses the term “sex work” to define prostitution, a term that is neither recognized nor defined in international law. As I mention in my report on prostitution (A/HRC/56/48) to the Human Rights Council of 7 May 2024, the term fails to take into account the serious human rights violations that characterize the prostitution system and gaslights” victims and their experiences, by normalizing the violence and exploitation that they experience. The term further seeks to present prostitution as work in which sexual acts are a service with a transactional value, and subject to a financial exchange.\

It places all human beings - especially women and girls - within the realm of the market, validating an ultraliberal vision of human relationships. Instead, I have strongly recommended using the terms
“prostitution”, “victims” and “prostituted women and girls” rather than “sex work” or “sex worker”, in recognition of the scale of the harm experienced and the violation of fundamental rights as well as the
rights of those prostituted to protection, assistance and compensation.

Sent by Reem Alsalem to the same meeting that LGB Alliance have written to.

(If anyone thinks this should have its own thread please do start)

The judicial system in your own country has people you elect making the appointments though.

And in the UK, Parliament continues to have real control over the judiciary in a way that is less common elsewhere, even in the west.

Once you get up into international bodies, the connection to any kind of responsible government is extremely tenuous. It's basically professional bureaucrats running things.

Even with those few people who are in some way representing your own nation within these groups, the great majority will have no connection to you or where you come from at all.

It;s just really outside all of the conventions and practices that exist to make sure the government really is responsible to the people and their chosen representatives. How does one even go about lobbying or complaining about bodies like this if we have issues with their decisions? Who would you write a letter to, whose desk could you turn up at?

The idea of an international justice body may seem lovely but when it gets down to brass tacks I find it difficult to see who they represent and whose interests they are working in.

No, that's wrong. Judges aren't appointed by politicians in the UK. They are in the US, which is why they don't have an independent judiciary and their justice system is a total clusterfuck.

The independence of the judiciary is a key principle of democracy in the UK.

But judges can only make decisions in accordance with the law as it has been made by elected parliaments. If parliament has made a law which breaches an individual's human rights, the UK justice system can do nothing about it, which is what the European Court of Human Rights is for. They can tell the UK that its law isn't compliant with its international human rights obligations and to go away and think again.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 17:38

I reiterated that transgender women are women.”

Goodness me! Well, I can reiterate that the moon is made of Limburger and it will be just as accurate a claim.

Gosh how I support the lesbian groups you talk about!
I'm straight but I wish I could hide from 98% of men (or should I say pee-pee owners?) and just enjoy a life with most women and the few gay or straight men who are worthy!

The report being presented to the Parliamentary Assembly is the draft text. It can, and probably will, be amended by members of the Assembly. These amendments are often tabled by the political groupings rather than countries or individual politicians. The PACE has national representatives from the same political groupings as the European Parliament. So you could contact individual members of the UK delegation with your views.

The judiciary is controlled by Parliament in the UK. Judges are cosen through regulatory processes.

Most judges in the US are elected I believe.

But the fact that the judiciary is controlled by Parliament, and not some separate written rights constitution, is one of the most valuable things about the British system. And yes, I include human rights legislation.

Human rights legislation, at any level, is just a bunch of laws developed by a bunch of people in a particular place and time. There is no reason that their ideas are better than those of the legislating body, more likely to be true or good or well crafted.

Part of the reason gender ideology and such have been such a disaster in places like Canada is because these ideas get encoded into these documents and then you are stuck with them and any attempt to change them is treated as an attempt to attack people - you can see this potential I the way European regulations have been influenced.

Under a system like this, legislative bodies can be controlled, and laws essentially created, by the judiciary. Political judges begin to see their role as crafting law, not interpreting in light of the individual circumstances before them.

Why anyone would want to give up a really good, robust system with the primacy of Parliament at it's heart I will never understand.