Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Surely Mridul Wadhwa has to go now? Report into ERCC out.

736 replies

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 12/09/2024 12:12

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13842189/Edinburgh-Crisis-Centre-designed-protect-women-suffered-sexual-violence-condemned-failing-damning-report.html

Pretty scathing. Wadhwa cannot stay surely?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
63
AccidentallyWesAnderson · 13/09/2024 17:56

What do you mean Brighton does not have a rape crisis centre? Isn't that the one Sarah attended that kicked off her case in the first place?

IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 17:59

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 13/09/2024 17:44

This case has no bearing on Sarah's case in Brighton.

Happy to agree it has no direct legal bearing. But in terms of what is seen as accepted good practice surely this case clarifies some reasonable expectations? Such as that it's not acceptable to obfuscate and refuse to tell women who attend a survivor's group whether or not they might find themselves in a mixed-sex group. It clarifies that survivors should have a right to know what kind of group they are attending. Sussex were not being clear about that at all. And as you say, this was not putting service users first.

I know on one of Sarah's thread she did mention the legal basis on which her barrister thought she could win, and I dont think it was this.

And anyway court cases are always strange logic. It will probably come down to did Sarah read the small print carefully or some other victim blaming response.

But this is of course if we had any hope of a Women's and Equalities Committee that actually cared about women, rather than exclusively the LGBTQI+ community, things could be different. ie if the Committe in response to both the court case and the report on ERCC put in motion a process by which what are the basic service provision of centre federated to become national standards that both funders and service providers had to abide by that would be a big step forward.

But as the new Chair of the W&E Committee doesn't even know what a woman is, I dont suppose we can expect any pro-active, pro-woman actions from there.

I wonder if it is worth lobbying Jess Phillips who is Minister for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and Girls and ask her to take action.

But if she did would Labour / Starmer listen to her.

Or maybe someone should start a petition on the Parliamentary Petitions web site, saying not sure what.

What would a petition say.

Can a Government tell funders who they should or shouldn't fund.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ...............

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 18:02

@AccidentallyWesAnderson

I would agree with you that it is a rape crisis centre and it's what they call themselves. It was founded in 1990.

survivorsnetwork.org.uk/about-us/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 18:05

It's also the first result if you use the location search on the national site

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/find-a-centre/?centreq=Brighton%2C+Brighton+and+Hove%2C+UK&lat=50.8229402&lng=-0.1362672&placee_id=

lanadelgrey · 13/09/2024 18:23

I’m sure Naomi Cunningham will know whether or not to draw any inference from one case to the other

OhcantthInkofaname · 13/09/2024 18:29

Who hired this twat? Surely they must accept responsibility.

IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 18:37

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 18:02

@AccidentallyWesAnderson

I would agree with you that it is a rape crisis centre and it's what they call themselves. It was founded in 1990.

survivorsnetwork.org.uk/about-us/

It says they run the Rape Crisis Centre for Brighton.

That's why its essential that the agreed standards of federated centres are made obligatory, or you cant use that name.

They have appropriated the name because the funders decided that Survivors Network which isn't a women or a feminist organisation should run rape crisis provision in Brighton.

Using the name illegitimately doesn't mean it is.

As said up thread unless and until we can get funders etc., to recognise there are standards, and it isn't about them saying this is the cheapest choice, or this fits our personal politics, this will go on happening.

But it is this lack of respect for women, let alone the concepts that women have worked long and hard for, those with the money will constantly undermine us.

(I find it really weird that anyone would think just using a name confirms that is what they are.)

Maybe a start would be all of us familiarising ourselves with whatever flimsy standards and compliance women services have set up.

And then we can quote them when funders or local politicians start talking out of their back sides or their local funding budget.

Dont forget Brighton is also the council that took away from a Brighton DV project which they had been funding, and gave it to all all purpose housing organisation.

It is about the absolute disregard for anyting that women say or do.

Every area needs a local women's group that constantly monitors local councils decisions, and even if you cant stop financial decision, you can challenge misrepresentation.

ie funding SN to provide support of victims of rape is not the same as funding a Rape Crisis Centre.

Councillors might want to pass off this sleight of hand as that is what it is, but it isn't. Its dishonest.

Waitwhat23 · 13/09/2024 18:48

OhcantthInkofaname · 13/09/2024 18:29

Who hired this twat? Surely they must accept responsibility.

At the time of appointment, Maggie Chapman was COO of ERCC and set much of the policy.

Chapman is, of course, a MSP with the Scottish Green Party. The same party which voted en masse against the six words amendment of the Forensic Medical Examiner Services Bill in 2020. Here is a thread on Twitter regarding Mridul Wadhwa's behaviour during that debate -

x.com/ForWomenScot/status/1792860478235898066

There's no responsibility for his hire being accepted. Even the Equality and Human Rights Commission, when appealed to upon the point that a male had been given a job which was specifically advertised under an occupational requirement, went 'meh. It's too late now!'.

The rot runs deep in Scottish civic life.

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/09/2024 18:48

Just saw this video on Twitter.

https://x.com/dessievendee/status/1834311738155565067?s=46

It's worth a watch given what's happened.

She was 100% right then & she's more right in hindsight.

Also, watch all the smug 'professional feminists' who dominate the third sector supposed to support women in Scotland. Those women, Sturgeon too, are the reason Wadhwa has lingered so long (and destructively) & got away with so much.

Absolutely shame on every one of them.

frazzled1 · 13/09/2024 18:53

https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1834224324410044918

Any word yet from Scottish Green Maggie Chapman?.. Hmm

Surely Mridul Wadhwa has to go now? Report into ERCC out.
Surely Mridul Wadhwa has to go now? Report into ERCC out.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 18:59

(I find it really weird that anyone would think just using a name confirms that is what they are.)

They are listed on the Rape Crisis E&W website as the Rape Crisis Centre for Brighton. So "whether we like it or not" they are the Rape Crisis Centre for Brighton.

Waitwhat23 · 13/09/2024 19:01

And Kaukab Stewart's got a fucking cheek to make any sort of comment on this -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o

(Kaukab was one of the MSP's who were pictured smirking underneath a sign which said 'decapitate terfs'. She's our Minister for Equalities btw).

Woman with head in her arms sitting on a bed

Edinburgh rape crisis centre failed to protect women-only spaces

The centre unfairly dismissed a worker who believed victims should know the sex of staff who deal with their case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o

IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 19:01

This is from the AIBU thread:

I am going to say this: I am an Asian woman with a similar background to MW. I also work in the social sector. I suspect he was able to get away with it for so long because he accused anyone who objected of being racist. Certainly on X and other places, the narrative is all "racist white feminists headed by JKR persecute innocent brown immigrant woman" This really enrages me.

Unfortunately, the social sector is very prone to polarised narratives and a sort of "oppression Olympics" for lack of a better word. MW had established himself as an object of sympathy because he was brown and "trans".

Unfortunately the culture in the funded sector is in fact very unforgiving of individuals speaking up when it seems they are going against the presumed accepted way of thinking, best practice. Let alone challenging someone who has set themselves up as the representative of an oppressed group.

In a way it is a shame that women service providers ever got swallowed up into what Blair renamed the 3rd Sector.

Hard enough is a small group / federation to keep in touch with founding principles, but when you are subsumed into a huge range of competing interests, even harder.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5164110-to-be-mortified-at-the-treatment-of-rape-victims-at-the-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

..To be mortified at the treatment of rape victims at the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre? | Mumsnet

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o]] No women only spaces for 16 months. Basically...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5164110-to-be-mortified-at-the-treatment-of-rape-victims-at-the-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 19:02

Waitwhat23 · 13/09/2024 19:01

And Kaukab Stewart's got a fucking cheek to make any sort of comment on this -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o

(Kaukab was one of the MSP's who were pictured smirking underneath a sign which said 'decapitate terfs'. She's our Minister for Equalities btw).

FFS.

IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 19:11

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 18:59

(I find it really weird that anyone would think just using a name confirms that is what they are.)

They are listed on the Rape Crisis E&W website as the Rape Crisis Centre for Brighton. So "whether we like it or not" they are the Rape Crisis Centre for Brighton.

Your missing the point. Listing them using their appropriated name still doesn't make them that.

The point of the signposting by Rape Crisis is that - signposting.

If you look at the page about "their" centres SN aren't on it.

What are Rape Crisis centres?
Our 38 member Rape Crisis centres provide free, specialist support and services to local women and girls who have experienced rape, child sexual abuse, sexual assault, sexual harassment or any other form of sexual violence.
https://rapecrisis.org.uk/find-a-centre/

ie there are only 38 centres that adhere the RC principles.

But - make no mistake. I think their web site is really hard to navigate, and even if you found this page you wouldn't know what the implications of it are.

Let alone trying to find the page that tells you the helpline is staffed by actual women.

I think it shows the fear in the funded sector that for example Rape Crisis cant copyright the name sp that those who are genuine Rape Crisis centres (and funders) cant get away with saying they are.

Another dismal sign that after 50+ years of setting up and providing women centre services, women are too unsure about being up front about who they are and why they exist.

Unfortunately most women's sector groups are now so isolated from and equally disregarded by women locally that I think over the years they will just disappear.

Rape Crisis centre services

Our centres provide free counselling and other services people who have experienced rape, sexual abuse, or any type of sexual violence. Find out more.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/support-and-services/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 19:16

I'm not missing the point. It's a rape crisis centre because it's providing rape crisis services. It's a shit one, yes, but it's misleading to imply, as you did in your response to @AccidentallyWesAnderson that there is no rape crisis service in Brighton. There is, it just isn't federated to RCEW. You've decided that means it isn't a rape crisis centre at all and just "some charity". That isn't true.

Should there be proper regulation and mandatory standards of all rape crisis provision. Yes. No argument there.

ArabellaScott · 13/09/2024 19:18

Should there be proper regulation and mandatory standards of all rape crisis provision. Yes. No argument there.

Assuming the standards and regs were focused on supporting survivors rather than validating men with agendas.

ArabellaScott · 13/09/2024 19:19

As seems to be the case in Scotland, unfortunately.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 19:19

Absolutely @ArabellaScott and that they've stayed that way, which doesn't seem to always be the case.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 19:19

X post

MotherOfABoobAddict · 13/09/2024 19:22

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2024 12:27

'The review was heavily critical of Wadhwa, who self identifies as a woman but does not have a gender recognition certificate and is legally a man.
It found her be a domineering as chief executive who “who did not understand the limits on her role’s authority” and it said Wadhwa “failed to set professional standards of behaviour” within the organisation.
She was portrayed as incompetent, overseeing an organisation with systemic failures and a chaotic approach in key areas such as financial transparency, training and safeguarding for staff and clients.'

Wow, who'd have thought that hiring someone who didn't even meet the most basic criteria for the job (being a woman), let alone have any relevant qualifications or experience, could go so wrong?

Waitwhat23 · 13/09/2024 19:41

And the rot is across Scottish civic life. From Rachael Hamilton MSP's twitter account -

'Police Scotland have said they would allow a serious sex offender to self-declare their gender. This opens the door to a grotesque situation where a male rapist can demand to be called a woman and further traumatise his victim. I raised this at #FMQs today'

There was impressive cross party working from Rachael, Pauline McNeill and Ash Regan yesterday to raise this issue at yesterday's FMQ's.

The Scottish Government and other institutions (Police Scotland, SPS for example) have actively created this situation. I've said before, it's going to take us years to reverse this bullshit.

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2024 21:28

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 13/09/2024 17:44

This case has no bearing on Sarah's case in Brighton.

Happy to agree it has no direct legal bearing. But in terms of what is seen as accepted good practice surely this case clarifies some reasonable expectations? Such as that it's not acceptable to obfuscate and refuse to tell women who attend a survivor's group whether or not they might find themselves in a mixed-sex group. It clarifies that survivors should have a right to know what kind of group they are attending. Sussex were not being clear about that at all. And as you say, this was not putting service users first.

No legal precedent, that correct.

HOWEVER since English law is generally based on reasonableness and charities have certain legal obligations under their remit and the Equality Act (within exemptions exist) is all about preventing harms, then actually it's a useful thing to build a case.

The RCS report firmly states that there are duties of care to service users, who should be central. It identify numerous areas where ERCC and Wadhwa acted not in the interests of the public in line with it's charitable aims but for their own personal political agendas.

Noting here that one of the obligations of charities is to
1. Make sure your charity’s carrying out its purposes for the public benefit
You and your co-trustees must make sure the charity is carrying out the purposes for which it is set up, and no other purpose.

If you are actively causing a harm to the group you are supposed to be helping because you want to further an agenda which isn't it central aim, you potentially have an issue. Because duty of care and all that.

Charities are required to uphold the law and they are required to uphold certain standards by the Charity Commission.

I note the following:
Strategy for dealing with safeguarding vulnerable

groups including children issues in charities

This strategy document describes the Charity Commission’s role and approach in dealing with safeguarding

issues in relation to charities.

It explains how the commission:

• works with the sector and other agencies to prevent safeguarding concerns arising in the first place

• responds to allegations or reports of abuse of children and vulnerable adults within a charity

• deals with concerns about someone who is currently acting as a charity trustee, employee, volunteer

or contractor and their suitability to hold that position

And

What does the commission mean by ‘vulnerable’ and ‘safeguarding’?

A significant number of charities come into contact, work with or provide activities for vulnerable

beneficiaries. For the purpose of this document, by ‘vulnerable’ the commission is referring to children and
^young people under 18 years of age or to adults who are in receipt of a regulated activity
^
.

The commission defines safeguarding and promoting the welfare of vulnerable groups and children as:

• protecting from maltreatment

• preventing impairment of health or development

• for children - ensuring children are growing up in circumstances consistent with the provision of safe

and effective care

Protection is a part of safeguarding and promoting welfare. It refers to the activity that is undertaken to protect specific groups or children who are suffering, or are likely to suffer, significant harm. Effective protection is essential as part of wider work to safeguard and promote the welfare of vulnerable groups and children. However, all charities should aim to proactively safeguard and promote the welfare of their beneficiaries so that the need for action to protect them from harm is reduced.

I would very much suggest that a charity offering counselling services of any kind for any reason is dealing with vulnerable people and therefore has a duty of care to them. They certainly should not be acting in a way that causes harm.

The RCS report adds legitimacy to the claim that refusal to provide access to single sex services as a default (never mind upon request) is harmful and is not upholding legal requirements over duty of care with vulnerable persons.

Keep in mind that a specific request for single sex services is not denying services to others. Especially when you are offering specific services for males only and transpeople only.

This report has to be seen through the lens of legitimising the claim of harm having been done, which therefore strengthens arguments about discrimination and not acting within the law because it's not looking after and protecting a vulnerable person as required by the charity commission.

It's certainly not going to harm Sarah's case and it definitely isn't going to help the Brighton charity.

Councils can find whoever they like: but funding a charity which has not got proper oversight and isn't protecting vulnerable individuals in line with charities legal obligations is kinda problematic because councils have requirements over due diligence and oversight that there is proper accountability over spending funds.

Saying this report doesn't matter and is irrelevant is wrong.

It is effectively setting out a bunch of reasonable expectations for women that are difficult for someone else in the sector to then argue against.