John Lewis 'allows trans women into bra-fitting rooms' as retailer hit by furious gender row

[IwantToRetire]

High street giant John Lewis is at the centre of a furious row amid claims its controversial trans policies put the safety of female staff and customers at risk, it can be revealed.

The retail group is facing claims its inclusive transgender policies – claimed to have been unilaterally imposed on staff – are "dangerous" and relegate women to "second class employees".

Lesley Pickup, who quit her job as a "selling partner" in John Lewis' Cheadle branch, allowed her resignation letter to be published on TV comedy writer and women's rights campaigner Graham Linehan's Substack platform, "The Glinner Update". In her letter, she insisted "female colleagues live in fear of dismissal if they speak out".

Ms Pickup said that for the past 20 years, she had been "involved with female victims from all faiths, cultures, ethnicities, and backgrounds who have been subjected to domestic and sexual violence and psychological abuse by men".

For some, she said, work offered "the only time in their lives where they should have guaranteed female-only safe spaces free from the demands of men regardless of who those men claim to be".

Full story https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-lewis-allows-trans-men-33622299

an autogynaephile

Its very obviously going to cause discomfort and upset at best and alarm and distress at worst.

Exactly

Ah but the women who object are of course bigots who need to educate themselves.

They just want to pee...! Er. They just want to force women to handle their breasts...!

But, for the people who are of the opinion that there's another reason, it's still completely unacceptable.

There's no justifiable reason to use women in this way, whether he's predatory or not, whether he's getting aroused or not, whether it's for his validation or not.

You can think it's all three of those things, and I do.

But even if it isn't, it's still not acceptable to make women do this to their own detriment and discomfort.

and, of bloody course, if you make it completely legit, you're going to be inundated with creeps.

Why would John Lewis even consider it

All part of the fun.

I’ve had that conversation and she says they won’t have to serve them. But the posters on here are claiming that’s not true and say they have a ‘real world’ example. Shame they can’t provide me with the evidence as I love a good gottcha for someone so entrenched in a culture war that they can’t use any critical thinking.

It's worth reading this short Guardian confessional article for some insight. My bold.

I bought my first pair of knickers in January. Within a month, I was wearing knickers and tights under my clothes almost all the time. My partner of 20 years has embraced this wholeheartedly. Sometimes we go shopping together. I let the sales ladies know I am shopping for myself. As I pay, I smile and wink, as if to say, “I am enjoying this even if you aren’t.”

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/03/my-life-in-sex

mansplainingsincethe90s
Where else would they get their bras fitted?

Not a problem for women to solve

That's my point. It's for JL to solve. Trans women may need to have a bra fitted. It's up to JL how they do that, while maintaining safety and dignity for all. ( not just the TW or the staff member or the women customers.'
And (using someone else's figures from above) just because only 0.5% of their customers are TW doesn't mean that they shouldn't be served or offered the same services as anyone else.

Many people think it's completely acceptable to use women in this way. Especially shop assistants.

There was an article on MSM from a bloke who went shopping with his wife for women's clothes (for him) which he thoroughly enjoyed. And when he came to pay he made eye contact with the cashier, smirked and said something like even if she wasn't enjoying it, he was.

I've got a feeling it was even written up in the Guardian??

I know The Telegraph did a series of articles logging one man transition. I bet they haven't aged very well.

The articles, not the man 😄

Possibly both from what I've seen.

Oh Lord, we totally crossposted.

I remember at the time it was difficult to believe that the guardian was fully behind this blatant misogyny

This is like asking "Why don't trans athletes get their own third spaces?" Because it's completely beside the point which is to be able to override women's boundaries. For whatever reason establishments and institutions would rather fall all over themselves to cater to that.

How about a male person in a short pleated skirt literally skipping over to me and teen DD in JL Trinity Leeds while we looked at Bras and asking if we needed help in a faux girl voice?
Good enough?

Come on. That's a massive pivot.

The issue is that males are being allowed into the bra fitting area which is for women. JL is forcing its female staff to fit men with bras, and its female customers to be in the same fitting area as men while they have bras fitted. JL is making it women's problem.

And they are choosing to do that instead of a) not offering the service to men, b) offering the service elsewhere and by male fitters.

Echoes of Grayson Perry's cackle of laughter when Kirsty Wark insisted he answer whether he was aware that he was involving non-consenting others in his sexual fetish. 'There's life in the old dog yet', was his response.

Oh Lord, we totally crossposted.

I remember at the time it was difficult to believe that the guardian was fully behind this blatant misogyny

Haha so spooky that we had the same thought simultaneously

Shops have loads of rules. You can't return sale items for cash, you can't try on underwear or swimsuits unless you're wearing pants, you can't have more than one person in a cubicle.

They could easily say cubicles are designated on the basis of biological sex. They can even quote the relevant bit of the equality act.

And have men staff the male cubicles and women staff the female ones.

Altho, God knows, I don't want sales men to have to go through an uncomfortable experience either, I suspect it would suddenly become far less of a problem.

I think it's because it was so mainstream. Men going into women's changing rooms are ten a penny on the Internet. But this was supported by a national newspaper.

Can I just add the fitting service is miles better in a little independent shop best bras i have ever bought. Need to keep these small shops that respect women open

JL is making it women's problem

They absolutely are.

Women are entirely necessary to this specific issue. Women's changing rooms, women being in them, women's clothes, women fitters.

As we've said a million times, take women out of the equation, and the validation disappears.

But John Lewis are entirely happy to sacrifice women.