Elon Musk is a twat

[SerendipityJane]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/sep/07/elon-musk-women-testosterone

@SensibleSigma Its more like a Neo-Nazi salute. I know that sounds like moving the goalposts, but its a specific hand to heart and then arm straight out thing they do. I would post but don't want to start googling neo-Nazi salutes because my search history is already really weird. I don't think it necessarily means he is a Nazi, its as likely to be an attention seeking thing or a "triggering the libs" type thing but its not great either way. It sort of reminds me of how small kids will sometimes "swear" but not really putting their other (index) finger up. or three fingers and saying "read between the lines". Its extremely childish (but thinking its being smart) and they get told of. Its the same as the AFD chanting "Alice fur Deutschland" and then smugly saying "what? what's wrong with it?"
I do think it is more likely to be a deliberate attempt to get people calling him a Nazi so they can retaliate with a "the crazy left calls everyone a Nazi" than an accident/genuine naivity on his part. But who knows. We can't see inside his head we can only judge him by his words and deeds.

Thanks. @biscuitandcake , that makes sense.

I actually googled a German phrase and then Allo Allo, OP.

I think if you google nazi today what you will get is Elon Musk videos.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/s/YBoptO1Y42

I found this a useful side by side.

On the one hand, he can't be doing a Nazi salute in public because that would be insane. But on the other hand he is clearly doing a Nazi salute. 🤔 My brain can't seem to accept it.

I know what I saw.

The word you are looking for is surreal (and it does feel a bit like going mad and I think that's partly the point). If you want to laugh about it, its like the "National Bocialist's" in the Monty Python Minehead by election sketch. The fake applause and "he's right you know" also remind me of Twitter these days.

(Video

I like your analysis, biscuitandcake, very sensible
I'm still not sure about the not-waving-but-saluting question, but let's face it, there's lots of blatantly obvious stuff to hold against EM - e.g. calling Jess Phillips a "rape genocide apologist" was beyond unforgivable in my book, he'd struggle to go any lower.

Sorry if the above video offends people feel free to report! Its just that the juxtaposition between the very normal rainy UK and the pantomime right wing Germans with everyone just smiling along is surreal and basically the joke in the Monty Python sketch.

Thanks!
For what its worth, I don't think its worth wasting too much energy worrying about the "waving or saluting" question either or falling out with otherwise likeminded people who see it differently. I do think it will lead to more pushing of boundaries down the line and its right that people ''notice" every time. But not at the expense of getting diverted from the other stuff Trump is doing in the background.

I love Monty python @biscuitandcake it's surreal but also makes you guffaw, so it's in the right context, I wouldn't worry! Also, I think the title of this thread is pretty accurate. Elon is a twat. It is surreal that he did that. It makes me think he's trolling now. It just seems mad.

I liked it and don’t remember seeing it before. Interesting what I notice second time around 🤣

Life is increasingly like Monty Python to be honest.

What Trump is doing bears very close watching. I’m still undecided about Musk. I would be surprised if he entertains Trump long, and I think he’s a one issue man really. I think he will fall out over all the other issues eventually.

Musk's not a true Nazi, more Nazi-adjacent, growing up in apartheid South Africa probably didn't colour (if that's the right word) his thinking (I bet like the liberal white characters in those Hollywood films about black civil rights he'd have been able to see through the injustice of the pervasive racist culture in which he grew up), and his support for Tommy Robinson, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, (sorry did I just dead name him?) could be forgiven as ignorance of British politics, and the level of right wing thuggery from which even Farage and Reform want to distance themselves. We should not take so seriously the late night posts from his weed-addled brain.

I am old enough to remember (and translate) Eugène Terre'Blanche

Gosh, there's blast from the past! I know two ex Paras who were invited to join his community... They stayed for a couple of weeks, then ran for the hills.

He used to try to recruit lots of ex servicemen from the UK and USA, apparently.

Rode round on his horse most of the time, missed on brandy before noon and often fell off.

Do the people pretzelling themselves up to explain away a very clear fascist salute think that fascists are only fascists if they carry Mein Kampf in their top pocket? You know fascism isn't Hitler cosplay, right? Your willingness to seek comforting lies to deny the evidence of your own eyes is either you seeking to soothe your own conscience because you stand adjacent to the policies of a US administration which is going to be brazenly far right, or because you're too cowardly or apathetic to call it what everyone knows what it is, which is exactly how fascists cement power unopposed.
Wake the fuck up, because right now it looks like a lot of you sold your souls because the devil said he'd give you a law saying 'only two sexes'.

WaitingForTheDoubleDecker Your willingness to seek comforting lies to deny the evidence of your own eyes is either you seeking to soothe your own conscience because you stand adjacent to the policies of a US administration which is going to be brazenly far right, or because you're too cowardly or apathetic to call it what everyone knows what it is..

Thanks for that.
I have a real dilemma now: am I standing 'adjacent to the policies of a US administration which is going to be brazenly far right', or am I ' too cowardly or apathetic to call it what everyone knows what it is'?🤔

Or maybe I'm just being my usual analytical, sceptical, critical self...

If you're having trouble knowing how to assess a fascist in government making a fascist salute as the government he's part of takes power and pardons people who attempted a violent coup, it's not because you're analytical. Anyway, I'm not going back and forth with any of you. Your choices are yours to live with.

Oh do give over. The US voted in Trump. I'm British and therefore wasn't invited to the tea party.
If you're upset about Trump and his pals being in power, fair enough. I'm not thrilled either.
But here we are, go find someone who voted for him to have a go at?

I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.
Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you…
It doesn’t walk in saying,
“Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution.”

Or maybe it does ?

And

@SerendipityJane that’s a powerful quote! Do you know the source, please? (Or is it your own?)

Just flashed through my feed like a thief in the night, I'm afraid.

Many quotes about fascism are, of course, translated from languages other then English.

I was wondering about the accounts of JKR and Julie Bindel making fun of people thinking it's the nazi reference.
I'm skeptical, too, about saying, well Elon is an excitable guy, it was just out of happiness.
What matters here is context. The whole political background, the story, the connections they have, the supporters they have, the pardon for the Oath Keepers and others, his influence as a person....

I think saying he did it in a way he has plausible deniability is quite correct. That way, no-one can pin him down on it but it's still a sign and the photo is already as iconic as the one of injured Trump after the attack (side note: Guardian lamenting Trump was elected but also Guardian being one of the news sites who published the photographer's account as background story and ran the photo multiple times - this photo was very important in the elections and for the perception of people).

Comparing to photos from the ballet or other politicans using their left hand and so on is absolutely not the same.

Additionally I think Musik is doing some pick'n'mix: Libertarianism, technology as a saviour, supporting right-wing movements, intense focus on cost-saving (there were multiple reports on how he ran his companies to the detriment of the health of employees), freedom of speech unless it is against him or his interests, when he turns around and trolls and attacks people relentlessly (also wanting to forbid the account who tracked his flight movements), the image of the manic inventor, focus on the breeding movement (more children = more worker bees)...

There is probably not a pattern of the past that he copies 1:1, it's a bit of everything.

His support of specialist immigrant visas against Trump likely does not mean he supports immigration or human rights. He and the other tech bros probably just don't want to lose some educated specialists which are important for their businesses, it's only about their own interest.

Today I saw an article which describes some of his and Peter Thiel's (PayPal and libertarian billionaire) upbringing in South Africa and their connections:
www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/26/elon-musk-peter-thiel-apartheid-south-africa

Thanks for the link to the article, ConstructionTime.

• *I've often wondered why Musk being a South African poking around in US politics has not been more highlighted and criticised; a white South African furthermore, but strictly speaking that shouldn't be relevant.

Even more startling is this, from the Guardian article:

there is fodder from Musk’s early life with a neo-Nazi grandfather who moved from Canada to South Africa because he liked the idea of apartheid through his high school education in a system infused with the ideology of white supremacy.

I always assumed Musk was just another white South African, I was completely unaware about his family history, which definitely puts a different slant on his ideas and behaviour. Having a neo-Nazi grandfather should make him very careful about how he waves at people...

Yeah I've seen it now and I'm not sure what the fuck he was doing but that definitely looked like what it looked like.