3 questions for GC women

[ChirpyFinch]

As the title says, three questions for the women in this chat.

1. Do you think the majority of people are gender critical, and why/why not?

2. Globally, the right wing is more vocally gender critical than the left. They are also far more likely to be regressive on a range of women’s issues like abortion and anti-gay. Why do you think they agree with GCs on this one issue but disagree on so much else (if you think they do?)

3. How many trans people do you estimate there are globally?

the way she said what? if it wasn't what she said? Was she insufficiently ladylike?

There's been a disturbing blip in language policing in the last couple of days. I was accused of aggression because I refused to accept a deliberate insult without calling it out, other people got exaggeratedly upset at seeing the word fuck. MN is a board used by adults, not children.

My bad. I am not sure if you can unreport something?

In my defense I haven't read 1984 for about 30 years, others might also have missed the reference and just picked up a dismissive tone.

Agree, Dean.

I confess I didn't originally get the 1984 reference and it just came over rude, like an accusation of being really stupid.

You misunderstood the post then.

In my defense I haven't read 1984 for about 30 years, others might also have missed the reference and just picked up a dismissive tone.

Why shouldn't posters be allowed to have a "dismissive tone"?

Shall we try again.

1. why is transactivism so sexist, homophobic and racist? Why is it so authoritarian in nature?

2. doesn't it concern you that this makes it aligned with the far right and authoritarian regimes?

3. why do transactivists always resort to mantras like being kind or shouting bigot or just general censorship when asked difficult questions?

4. why don't transactivists understand safeguarding? I mean allowing anyone who says they are female into female changing rooms but has a penis still is completely at odds with our laws about voyeurism? Does it concern you this might be a feature rather than a bug in the ideology?

5. why does transactivism always act to the benefit of males including ignoring issues exclusive to trans identifying females - particularly in health care when studies that were done using a male cohort are used to say there isn't a problem with females transitioning even those the known rates of complications for females are extraordinary?

6. well I'm not allowed to do this because apparently it's too confrontational to say that if feels like 1984 where Winston is asked to say what he's told not what he sees, despite the court cases that say the believing in sex not gender is a belief worthy of respect in a democratic society.

I asked these questions to reflect the OPs because the OP is all about controlling the narrative and then putting women in a place where they have to justify their own existence. Instead it is important to turn it around, reframe it and see if it stands up to scrutiny.

Apparently women responding to an affront to them is too confrontational. So why was the OP allowef to stand at all. Surely it was designed to be confrontational to women on this forum .

Then we've had a string of deletions.

MNHQ is being very firmly played. I'd really like an explanation as to why the thread is standing and why MN is deleting fair comments in response to the OPs confrontational manner and then we get 'oh but it's offensive'.

I'm sure there's a pile of us who feel many of the 'innocent' questions asked are deeply offensive because they are sexist and very frequently homophobic.

Hmm.

Why is this thread demonstrating point 5 above. Funny eh?

There's an interesting thread on Twitter regarding the evolving of the language used by Amnesty on this issue, as captured by the Wayback Machine.

'Until 5 August 2023, Amnesty International believed women and girls were oppressed by the Taliban "for the 'crime' of being born a girl". Between 5 August 2023 and today, they believed it was "for the 'crime' of identifying as a girl". Today it's "just for being women and girls".'

x.com/lnmackenzie1/status/1828449361493156086

Thanks. For one year all the women of Afghanistan identified into their own oppression. Maybe this is why so many people have failed to even make a noise as their rights have been stripped away.

Yes I misunderstood the post.

You are correct, a dismissive tone is not against the talk guidelines (unless it's a personal attack which this wasn't).

I have responded to MNHQ and apologized for my mistake.

So you literally got something I posted deleted because you didn't understand it.

Jesus wept. This is why we are in this mess, because people who don't understand what they are doing and saying are shutting down debate and comment because they think it's offensive when actually it's drawing significant political parallels with areas of major and legitimate concern.

Perhaps you could have engaged and asked for clarification before reporting.

I've already reported and requested an explanation from MNHQ.

I really don't think I've said anything that's not relevant or unacceptable or even outside mainstream debate at this stage.

Well said gail

no one ever seems to come up with any comments when faced with this, quite frankly, disgusting victim blaming

You got someone's post removed because you objected to a quotation from a classic work of literature, on behalf of someone else who could speak for themselves if they were unhappy with it?

I suppose there's a reason Orwellian is a word.

Someone quoted a classic work of literature at me t'other day. I objected strenuously but didn't ask for their post to be zapped.

Aria has apologised for their error and contacted the mods. That should be enough, we all make mistakes.

My bad. I am not sure if you can unreport something?

top tip. Just let posts stand. No one needs you to censor them or to censor others on their behalf

I am interested in knowing what you mean by "innately" male or female?

The genetics in your body are what make you biologically male or female, and the word "innate" usually means "inbuilt", so from a scientific perspective you'd be saying that they were born with the wrong genes. But they aren't, because the genes determine the sex organs.

I am genuinely interested in what you mean by it. I'm an intelligent person, I can understand that you make come to a different conclusion to me. But to understand how you reached that conclusion I'd like to hear your facts, please.

Fair enough apology accepted.

I also think we need to understand why it is so frustrating and upsetting to see these type of deletions though.

And why it is important to challenge it if it's unfair.

Yes I have learned my lesson!

I occasionally report things that seem like attacks or needlessly rude because I find it frustrating when interesting discussions descend into mud slinging, as they so often do.

But I was definitely wrong to report this and will be more careful in future.

You've got to love the irony of an Orwell quote being deleted though....

It's the end times.

we all make mistakes

we do indeed, but asking for other people's posts to be deleted for any reason other than their being obvious advertising spam or extremely obscene is way beyond a mistake.

Tone policing, monitor's badges, some animals being more equal than others. . . .

oops, it will be me next

Im not being funny but the deletions on the last few threads remind me of the moderation of a year or so back

i could argue that you shouldn’t have reported but MNHQ bear the ultimate responsibility for the deletion

the ‘how many fingers’ quote is in hundreds of threads without an issue

1984 indeed

Yes when I realized it was Orwell I felt pretty stupid 🤦‍♀️

Agree. I'm scunnered that someone's been banned for posting a bloody recipe.

Way OTT.

Sorry my post should have quoted aria

The questioning sounded oddly repetitive. As in AI esque.

Didn't know querying this was a deletion offence

Yes. I got deleted because I pushed back on a poster who was deliberately lying and twisting words. The tone policing, censuring seems to come
from those who have an expectation that others should be kind to them. As an adult, I have no such expectation of others on the internet. Civil does not mean kind, it also does not mean ‘don’t disagree with my post or challenge it’.

And yet, here we are.