3 questions for GC women

[ChirpyFinch]

As the title says, three questions for the women in this chat.

1. Do you think the majority of people are gender critical, and why/why not?

2. Globally, the right wing is more vocally gender critical than the left. They are also far more likely to be regressive on a range of women’s issues like abortion and anti-gay. Why do you think they agree with GCs on this one issue but disagree on so much else (if you think they do?)

3. How many trans people do you estimate there are globally?

Oh god yes

banning someone for a cake recipe….unless it was a weetabix one 🤔

The recipe ban was nothing to do with me!

And yes, good grief.

Why can’t people be rude? We are adults and sometimes people are rude, sometimes they swear and sometimes they are blunt and others mistake this for rudeness?

Surely rudeness can be said to be all too subjective if it is not a personal attack and name calling.

@Helleofabore fair point.

I suppose the line between rudeness and personal attack is not always clear and that's what the moderators are there for.

If it wasn't a personal attack then you report it and they say 'no that was fine actually'.

Actually, no. What has been happening of late is that if someone reports a post, the mods tend to delete from what I have seen.

They err on the side of caution. So if you, personally, find a post rude and it is not an attack, maybe you are highly sensitive to such things that perhaps you should scroll on past.

I suppose the line between rudeness and personal attack is not always clear and that's what the moderators are there for.

have you been here long?

not trying to be rude or snarky just want to see if you were around in the bad old days of ‘bless’ and ‘yawn’ and mumsnets own biscuit emoji

I asked these questions to reflect the OPs because the OP is all about controlling the narrative and then putting women in a place where they have to justify their own existence.

I am getting sick to the back teeth of women forever having to justify themselves. A woman's NO, and I don't consent to this should be enough, it should be accepted, it isn't though and we all know why that is.

Really, no, you don't report it. Report something illegal like spam, particularly if it looks like a phishing exercise. Report obscene or racist harassment - there are people, probably men, who get off on that.

Other than that, no, don't report anything. Not your job, and terribly disruptive and frustrating for all the dozens or hundreds of other board users who want to read what has been written - and to respond to it if they disagree with it. If you, personally, don't want to read it you don't have to, but don't take it on yourself to destroy everyone else's enjoyment of Mumsnet.

Your post on page 21 is back up Red, with the 1984 quote included.

So if you, personally, find a post rude and it is not an attack, maybe you are highly sensitive to such things that perhaps you should scroll on past.

Yes I agree actually. This has been eye opening. I actually don't want to be the tone police!

I think it's better to leave a post, potentially call it out and read the reply. Sometimes clarification is needed. Or it can be helpful for others to read reasoning around the ensuing discussion

Good to hear this.

What is a posters intention? If it makes a valid point of substance, it has value.

In terms of rudeness, given that some will consider asking questions about being aligned with the far right incredibly rude.

The OP demonstrates a fundamental lack of knowledge of the history and development of gender critical thought in the UK.

In the UK it has very firmly lead by women on the left who have been treated appallingly by the political parties they were aligned with or even belonged to.

We do not live in the US. We should be reflecting on why US politics is dominating the subject and allowing the crushing of the voices of women on the left in the UK. This is not ok.

Our laws are different to the US. We should debate this on the basis of our own law and our own legal protections.

For example if we replace the word sex with gender in law we literally erase the protection of same sex based rights. And this is particularly problematic for homosexuals because they rely on this for same sex protections. This matters. It's a removal of rights which is very much at odds with the values and principles of the left.

So why are people on the left suggesting that people we who have concerns about this are 'far right'. Is it because they don't like people on the left pointing out their hypocrisy and betrayal of those these leftists claim to support.

Replacing sex with gender is a betrayal. It is not an act of the liberal left. It is an act of authoritarianism. Authoritarianism is of the left and of the right and it never ever serves the people. It always serves the establishment and centres of power. It removes power from grassroots. And it is grassroots women on the left that have seen, experienced and been the victim of this most.

It also avoids the inevitable cries of 'look at how bigoted you all are - there's loads of deletions on this thread!' when actually posts have been deleted for (shock horror) giving a receipe or for quoting a famous novel.

So, rather than it being innate within these transpeople who have always existed but been too repressed by society to come out, it is, in fact, a social contagion within a generation. Yes? These old women who may well be transmen or non binary should now of all times be able to truly embrace their transness. And yet they're not. Don't you find that even slightly interesting as a concept? That they haven't got caught up in the next generations contagions?

Replacing sex with gender is a betrayal. It is not an act of the liberal left. It is an act of authoritarianism. Authoritarianism is of the left and of the right and it never ever serves the people. It always serves the establishment and centres of power. It removes power from grassroots. And it is grassroots women on the left that have seen, experienced and been the victim of this most.

An important point

Absolutely wait

It also avoids the inevitable cries of 'look at how bigoted you all are - there's loads of deletions on this thread!' when actually posts have been deleted for (shock horror) giving a receipe or for quoting a famous novel.

And this is the trouble, most GC feminists and other women on FWR don't report posts, even very rude ones, for that reason and also because we live and let live. The TRAs, including ones not even on the thread, report everything they object to at the drop of a hat and in fact have specifically boasted about it in magazine articles. Hence "the Monitors".

Careful SwanRosen you are highlighting the complete illogical nature of the view.

Abusive? Or just challenging and thought provoking. Asking questions that challenge your belief system is not abuse. So, do you really mean "abusive" posts?

Do you remember the drive by scolder who insisted we were all being ridiculous, hysterical conspiracy theorists when we talked about the monitors and the screen grab dredging and went very quiet when we linked articles of TRA's boasting that that is exactly what they do?

Interesting. I see what you mean, but I’m not sure that that is how "gender critical" is widely used. I agree with "both your body and your mind are fine the way they are", but I wouldn't say I was critical of the entire concept of gender (depending, I suppose, on what you mean by "critical"). Certainly I’m critical of gender stereotypes. Maybe that is your meaning.

But the reason you are a particular sex is because of things that can be seen externally, not because of your inner feelings.

If reproductive sex were truly located in the mind rather than in the body, how would conception and contraception work?

What is gender, apart from stereotypes?