Neil Gaiman Accused Of Sexual Assault Pt II

[hihelenhi]

As we're nearly at the end of the first thread, let's make sure we keep the topic current.

There have been five women now who have spoken to podcasts about the predatory behaviour of Neil Gaiman.

First thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5112128-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault

I’ve just had a nose at his Instagram and he’s still being followed by loads of celebs. Interesting Rose McGowan, who kicked off MeToo, is still following him.

He’s following Lily Sheen but she’s not following him. Not sure if she was in the first place though. Weirdly he’s no longer following Tori Amos.

Looking at some data, he's lost 1.09% of his followers in the past 90 days. And this graph shows the drop over the past month.

How has it been two months with no statement and no public outing from Gaiman at all?

He really does think this is going to go away, doesn't he?

Yes, the difference in treatment is glaring isn't it? JKR has been treated like the devil incarnate (she still is mentioned in disgusted terms by those redditors), and despite her history of being abused herself, evidence of multiple good works helping victims of abuse and never having committed sexual abuse or sent threats of rape or death like transactivists do, but saying some things that men and those who believe that men can be women by just saying so consider utterly blasphemous and evil, along with actively funding and donating a ton of her fortune away to practically assist and help provide shelters for real live abused women of all social classes, she was "cancelled" and deemed persona non grata immediately. Especially by publishing people. As was any woman who indicated they even slightly agreed with her.

Gaiman? Crickets from those same people, all of whom imagine themselves "progressive".

The rank misogyny is glaring. And I do wish those on "the other side" who are picking up on Gaiman would join the dots. Regardless of who her brother is, I'm so tired of hearing that Rachel Johnson's so-called "terfery" means she can't possibly be someone who, um, might care about other women. I mean, caring about other women and understanding and questioning the dynamics stuff is the entire reason women have so-called 'terfy" views in the first place.

Agree wholeheartedly @hihelenhi

Regardless of who her brother is, I'm so tired of hearing that Rachel Johnson's so-called "terfery" means she can't possibly be someone who, um, might care about other women.

I saw a comment on a Reddit thread earlier that said ‘Rachel used the correct pronouns’ regarding someone on the Am I Broken podcast, as some kind of reassurance to another poster that Rachel was (at least vaguely I guess) ok.

So true @hihelenhi - the misogyny is enraging. The amazing things JKR has done to help vulnerable women, and yet she remains a villain. And Rachel Johnson, as well as being dismissed as a terf, will be decried as right-wing and not worth listening to because of who her brother is. Women are to blame for the actions of men, according to the rules of misogyny.

I know, it's highly irritating. A massive blind spot. I don't involve myself in it as they've made their views clear and it'll take a while, if ever, until such people may start to see and, for now, the most important thing with this is exposing Gaiman and his misogynist, abusive ilk from all sides rather than delivering lectures on transactivism and its many misogynies, as it won't change any minds. And besides which, it's all victims who are important here, regardless of any differences in views.

But the knee-jerk hatred against "certain women" is real. I honestly don't know how they square it. I can only hope that eventually, the truth may start to dawn by itself as it becomes apparent that misogynist gaslighting and tactics in one arena is often exactly the same as misogynist gaslighting tactics in another, no exceptions.

It would be good if other high profile comic book stars came on to the scene to decry sexual abuse in all its forms.

Jeff Smith has a fairly high star I think. He worked with Charles Vess for Rose.

The creator of Strangers in Paradise too.
But again. They are completely dwarfed by Gaiman’s fame. To speak out would probably end their careers.

I wont watch the last instalment of Good Omens.
But I love Vess’ artwork so I harbour a hope that he might pipe up.

The thing is that the comics industry has a very active whisper network but its sole purpose is to protect people who are in the club and attack people who aren't.

These are the people who very recently bullied Ed Piskor into suicide for much less than Gaiman ever did. I refuse to believe that none of them had ever heard the stories about Gaiman. I'd heard them, and I don't even work in an adjacent industry. They aren't good faith actors.

But there are respected elder statesmen who could say something and mean it.

I wonder, though, what leverage there is over him these days. He hasn't published a novel or graphic novel in years. The real money is in TV adaptations of his old properties, and lots of people are heavily invested in those. It might be that he's just gradually eased out.

Had you heard the stories before all this came out? Was it an open secret?

61 days since allegations of sexual assault were made against Neil Gaiman, who has yet to respond.

@notathenabutcassandra I'm glad you're doing but I really did prefer your graphic. It stood out better.

Not in detail, but he was widely rumoured to be dodgy. Not explicitly in terms of sexual assault - the way it was usually put was in terms of him having groupies, or weird behaviour around female fans.

That in itself was unusual, because most authors aren't well known publicly, many of the top writers in genre fiction are women and obviously don't carry on like that, and even among male writers there aren't many with his profile.

I also think, and this would make me very unpopular on the subreddit, that he's quite different to Warren Ellis. Ellis is an awful sleaze, but most of his bad behaviour - which is 20 years in the past - was transactional sex with aspiring writers or artists who thought he'd make introductions and get them a career in comics. I believe the women in his case because nobody comes out of their stories looking good.

But Ellis was just a man doing what men do, using his status in the industry to go to bed with women who thought they could use him to advance their careers. He wasn't the writer with a reputation for constantly trying to cop off with barely legal goth girls. That was Neil.

Maybe I could do both 😊 I changed it so the algorithm would pick up the text, I realised I'd missed 50-odd days of adding to search engine optimisation 😭 I'll do both from tomorrow 😊

Thank you and yuk.

I feel as if I Nedd to Google authors before reading now - I've gone right off NG and it definitely taints his books.

Does anybody have a substack subscription to read it all?

https://open.substack.com/pub/davidaaronovitch/p/neil-gaiman-celebrity-sex-power?utmcampaign=post&utmm_medium=web

Remember Simone de Beauvoir, Jean-Paul Sartre, and their "trio" where de Beauvoir would sleep with her female students before passing them to Sartre.

Women are absolutely capable of grooming victims for their male partners and it's a familiar pattern to anyone familiar with Sartre and de Beauvoir's behaviour.

Not sure if we're allowed to share archived links but archive.ph/g09FV

Ignore me. That won't work.

62 days since allegations of sexual assault were made against Neil Gaiman, who has yet to respond.

Reminds me of the reaction to Russell Brand being exposed. Deafening silence from anyone at all connected to comedy. These men still wield so much power and influence. It does underline how brave it is to take a stand against them though.

I wonder if the reason we're not hearing from people working with him are because they are under a current contract - possibly they're not allowed to comment in the way the Harry Potter actors were, because when they spoke out that was a long time after the films were made?

Seeing the list of current projects he has in production really brought it home to me how many people must be financially invested in his success. I don't think it will make a difference, this is not going to go away, thank goodness.

No, it seems to be seeping (far too gradually though) into the mainstream. It's been in the Bookseller again, for instance, and that's good for publishing. But as you say, far too many people invested. The complicity annoys the hell out of me.

I've seen that theory particularly in respect of David Tennant. But Tennant has been around long enough to know how the press game is played. If he was so minded, it's really not difficult to get something into the Mirror or the Mail saying "friends of David say he was shocked and horrified by the revelations".

Exactly. Likewise Michael Sheen. Who studiously avoided the topic while tweeting about Good Omens and made lots of posts about his socks instead.