Outrage over 'LGBT' books being banned by schools?

[Hairyesterdaygonetoday]

Has anyone seen this story in The Independent? I can't access the story because it's behind a paywall.

I'd like to know if these are books showing gay people living normal lives, which I'd have thought were quite widely read these days. Or if they're nonsense about people being 'born in the wrong body'. Once again it's obscured by the forced teaming of LGB, which are normal human sexualities, with transgenderism, which is totally different.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/lgbt-books-ban-uk-schools-library-b2596374.html?lid=3zhtz7kgzghk

Thanks if anyone can enlighten me!

ABC Pride really is incredibly shit. It's full of concepts and words that are completely meaningless to children of the age to read that kind of book.

There are a lot of books like that at the moment, there is an ABC anti-racism book (I can't remember the title) which is just as silly. These are books for adults to feel good about themselves.

This Book is Gay is inappropriate for anyone under the age of consent - it suggests that online hook-ups can be a good way to get sex. Just make sure you meet in a public place first. It certainly shouldn't be in a primary school.

These kinds of complaints/headlines never seem to look carefully into what the controversial content really is.

Yes. Children just learning the alphabet are at the very start of learning to read; the next step is CVC words so from a purely “educational” point of view the book doesn’t work because “A is for acceptance, K is for kindness…”

I can’t stand this proselytising at children. Teaching them “A is for acceptance” when they can’t even read FGS.

A lot of youth fiction has really shocking sexual content.

Children who have yet to learn the alphabet need to be focused on learning the alphabet. They dont need age inappropriate material thrust at them. Children do not need to learn about sex at primary school and you can teach that families come in different groups without that.

It is not banning books to say this is not appropriate for you to read at your age. I wouldnt think it appropriate to try and teach a toddler the alphabet with this either

I'm very anti-censorship, but a lot of the organizations around freedom to read now are very disingenuous.

They totally ignore that not all libraries have the same role, and specifically school libraries operate very differently than a public library where it's expected the parents will vet the children't choices.

They will also call things like recategorizing books from the children's section and having them as youth or adult as attempts to censor, which is crazy.

Books that are challenged, and the challenge upheld on the basis of the collection plan documents is considered a censorship act too. Well - what the hell is the collection plan for, then?

That’s what I was referring to.
From memory - the story itself is fine. It’s the illustrations that take it beyond and make it unacceptable for sharing with children.

Mind you, I only gave it a once over when it first landed on my desk (seeing the illustrations was enough for a hard no from me) so I’m willing to be corrected about the story.

Sorry, I started a thread on this before seeing yours.
Does anyone know how to delete that thread?
Thanks

There was one book that hit the news for being available in school libraries - perhaps someone will recall the title - that was supposedly a coming of age memoir from a gay man (absolutely fine), but had a detailed description of oral sex between a pre-teen and an adult which was portrayed in a very casual way (definitely not fine).
iirc, it didn't point out that this was in any way inappropriate.
Any school librarian who doesn't understand that there is a difference is in the wrong job.
There is an enormous difference between a book that is age appropriate and a book that isn't.
At a glance, I can see that the majority of the books mentioned are either overly sexual, sexist or promote very regressive gender stereotypes.

Report your OP and ask MN to delete.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/discarded-gender-diversity-books-trigger-new-culture-clash-112907135

More book controversy. This seems to happen a lot in the US, with both left and right making exaggerated claims to make political points. I hope we don't import the issue.

The article in the Guardian talks about “dozens of” school librarians, but there are thousands of schools in the UK so it’s not like it’s a widespread issue anyway. I wonder how many it actually was. “Dozens” could be less than 30.

So presumably you would be equally adament primary school books shouldn't feature anyone being straight, ie no mummys and daddys who are married to each other, no princesses who marry the prince, etc?

When This Book Is Gay first came out (and James Dawson was a gay man, not a heterosexual woman) it used to recommend Mermaids as a brilliant charity to get in touch with to talk about your feelings about your gender. I’d be interested to know if that stayed in the new updated edition…

I’d agree with a PP it shouldn’t be in primary schools, but it is a good sex ed resource for secondary schools. I don’t recall the stuff about online hookups, though! The screenshot posted of Amazon reviews I tend to think is probably part of a bad faith pile-on, tbh.

How about books about being straight? I.e anything that depicts a mum and dad, husband and wife, boyfriend and girlfriend. Being straight is a sexuality too, but, funnily enough, nobody seems to want to ban books featuring straight people.

Is learning about the straight community grooming?

The Mermaid book is exquisitely illustrated and has a wonderfully loving message because of the affection shown between the grandmother and her grandson.

It is also about artistic creativity and imagination expressed through dressing up. The little boy shows great inspiration, innovation and artistry in the mermaid costume he makes for himself.

It is very positive up to this point, but then when the grandmother sees him she looks worried and says “Uh oh.” Then she goes out. But she comes back with a necklace for him. Is that a message for the adults reading that this very young chid was ‘coming out’ as trans, but she lives him so accepts him? If he was just dressing up very cleverly, why the “Uh oh”?

Then the grandmother takes him to join other ‘mermaids’ who are in a mermaid parade. On the way they see another small child dressed as a shrimp which corresponds to the idea that the story is just a celebration of exuberant dressing up. Further along we see two chihuahuas with coats that create shrimps tails, and a baby as a sea urchin.

But then some of the characters you see in the parade are also beautiful dressed up young men who come across as looking l possibly like transvestites (to adult eyes). To me, when I first saw this, it seemed to be throwing the child of the story in with adults in a way that is worrying, even if it was unintentional on the part of the writer.

Having heard a reader of this story on You Tube mention it is most likely based on The Mermaids’ Parade in Coney Island New York which is held every year, I looked that up. It is a sort of Mardi Gras.

The parade in Coney Island is full of adults ( men and women) being inventive and artistic in their costumes, but inevitably some also a bit bawdy. So there is an element that seems a bit like a Pride March
though that is not what it is. The idea of a child among some of them is a concerning imo.

The illustrations must be among the best illustrations ever in any children’s’ books.. The portrayal of the grandmother and her grandson is particularly sensitive and touching. It absolutely exudes a sense of love and acceptance.

But I think it feels a bit as though a small child is being given a trans message just because he is imaginative. The story is for very young children (5,6,7,?) who in England will never see that real Mermaids’ Parade.

I feel torn though because it is all beautiful.

Like, the ABCs of Heteronormativity

Not sure about A, but I think we could say V for vanilla, b for binary, w for women, g for gameet, I am sure we could write this book.

@ScrollingLeaves She says "oh", not "uh oh" and Julian looks upset as he thinks he's done something wrong (whether that's the dressing up itself or using her curtains, it's left to interpretation!). She then returns with the necklace. I always read it as a message of acceptance, nothing to do with any "coming out". The "oh" leaves it deliberately vague. It's a kid expressing himself in a way that's not gender conforming, as well as a kid playing dress-up using things he's found in the house - both things that a lot of kids will understand could be perceived as wrong! His gran accepts either the gender non-conformity or the creativity (or both). But that little moment just shows that he's aware he's transgressed somehow.

I think you’re being disingenuous here. There’s a whole world of difference between depicting a child who has same-sex parents which shows them all engaging in everyday activities such as shopping/ playing/going to the park (ie the parents’ sexuality is incidental to the story) and an entire book about Grandad celebrating his sexuality by going to Pride or an ABC book about Pride (Pride is in the title - so we know exactly what this book is about) which focuses exclusively on the key words beloved by gender ideologues - kindness/acceptance etc etc. Children who look at ABC books probably can’t yet write their names let alone grapple with abstract nouns such as “acceptance” 🤦‍♀️

Can you see the difference @NCmybloodyfather ?

Suspect that poster hasn't read the thread - just used one comment to falsely suggest the poster is homophobic and against the representation of same sex families - when her original comment was nothing of the sort.

Again, back to the "what's age appropriate for children " question. For young primary it's age appropriate to learn and respect that families are different . Learning about Grandad's fetish and his Pride activities, not so much. 8 year olds being presented with images of sexual acts as evidenced above - inappropriate and a clear safeguarding issue.

I think you’re probably right @MrsOvertonsWindow but I would like to hear his / her thoughts.

This is an interesting conversation. My child will be starting primary school soon.
I bought my neices King and King when it came out. That's more than twenty years ago now! Recently my brother asked me if I'd like it for my little one's bookshelf. I had such an unexpected reaction to it, I feel real antipathy towards the book. (But I was worried he'd think I'd turned into a hideous bigot so I lied and said I'd already got it).
I don't know what my feelings stem from. Maybe the intervening years have brought such seemingly endless hectoring from the wokescolds. And the books I've been given for him with such pious morals to the tale. I feel sick of it and just want to read him things that are fun fun fun without a progressive moral in sight.

Thank you for explaining. I just checked. Abuela says, “Oh”. On the next page it says Uh oh without speech marks. I can see there is ambiguity.

Then they join the other mermaids and we see adult male transvestite like mermaids.
(Not mermen with tripod types).

I think the book is coyly playing with identity signals. One adult for example I happened to hear introducing the reading on You Tube, warmly praises “ being loved for who you are” etc. Maybe that is just that person’s interpretation but they won’t be alone. So they will exemplify adults with that message on their mind when they read it to small children.

I don’t think it is just about dressing up, or there would be all sorts of children dressing up.

This book is about an Hispanic American hence ‘Abuela’ and another Spanish word for let’s go.

I think there is a point to be made about making sure that books
'depicting a child who has same-sex parents which shows them all engaging in everyday activities such as shopping/ playing/going to the park (ie the parents’ sexuality is incidental to the story)'
aren't getting thrown out with the bathwater, so to speak.

There is a danger of books being labelled 'LGBT', and 'concerned parents' objecting to them en masse, to the point of invading libraries to take them off the shelves forcefully, not making the distinction between the kind of books you describe, FrancescaContini, and the really dodgy, age-inappropriate ones promoting trans stuff.
In some cases, this may be deliberate or unthinking homophobia; in most cases it's probably just an uncritical use of the label LBGTQ+.

I think it's important for campaigners on the issue of inappropriate books in children's libraries and schools to explicitly state that they are not objecting to the kind of books you describe, * *otherwise it can feel like homophobia.

This is a practical example of how the T in LGBTQ is damaging the achievements of the lesbian and gay community.

Agree with you @MarieDeGournay and thanks for clarifying why the distinction between the two types of books is important.