Statement on the gender critical movement and the far right

[hellotowel]

https://x.com/GCAntiFarRight/status/1823790909462602205

"We, the undersigned, are deeply disturbed that populist messages particularly targeting Muslims have gained traction among significant numbers of social media accounts associated with the gender critical movement."
Read and sign our statement below.
https://gcantifarright.wordpress.com/2024/08/13/statement-on-gc-movement-and-the-far-right/

When people express, according to their own level of education or verbal dexterity, that they feel that there is a double standard operating whereby, for example, it is open season on criticising Christians (such as Katie Forbes during the SNP leadership election) whilst simultaneously lionising Islam ( New Muslim SNP leader shown at prayer in Bute House with his male relatives - as if this is some sort of 'progressive' success) - that is not "bollocks" at all. It is a valid observation.

I didn't say that was bollocks. I was referring to a specific tweet that is in this thread about the conviction of a man involved in recent riots. I think it does a disservice to those who are quite capable of discussing religion, for example, by lumping in all criticism as 'the same'. It's very similar to the argument that you 'can't talk about immigration without being called a racist' or 'can't talk about Israel without being called an antisemite'. You can, just do it without being racist or antisemitic. Lots of people manage that.

And if we're going to keep raising antisemitism. The Campaign Against Antisemitism was very proactive in keeping Tommy Robinson away from their protest, to the extent he was arrested. Boundaries

Ok, can you please tell us who it is about then?

Everyone is telling their "truth" until they are asked to speak plainly.

So sick of this purity politics. Firstly, why is this aimed at women when we could all see with our own two eyes that it was men rioting? What are you sending out to men? Which male forums have you posted this on?

Secondly. GC, is not a movement, it may have started as one with lesbians raising the alert and then being joined by feminists, but now almost everyone is aware of it. It’s not a movement to believe in biology and fact, it’s what most people on is earth know to be true, so what are you going to do? Kick the racists out and make them believe that transwomen really are women so they stop being GC? Andrew Tate fanned the flames, and he sure as hell knows what a woman is, so are you going to send this to him? It’s just ridiculous. I’ll carry on just not being a racist without the need to add my name to some Good Girls list.

Well, well, well.
OP came on, threw a quick grenade and then a follow-up immediately after, and hasn't been seen since.

Perhaps she'd like to come back and explain her viewpoint on all this.

Personally, I'd rather that GC women didn't support, in any way, any of the political extremes. But I have to accept that some of them will.

I think when it comes down to it you are talking about the toxicity of twitter......not the nature and content of political debate in and of itself.

Why do people spend so much time on twitter; ruminating on waspish or offensive posts that others have made? It is the nature of twitter to amplify such things. If you don't like twitter don't use it.

The irony being that Islam is about as far right as you can get.

I wonder are they as 'deeply disturbed' about this? Surrey Pride founder and volunteer facing child sex abuse charges - BBC News

Probably not.

People really need to get their head round the fact that knowing women are not men and men are not women is a cross political concept.

But if you choose to sign a letter against someone at least have the guts to state who it is you are signing a letter against.

The right have always been overt about their anti semitism; the Left not so much...which is why Left anti semitism is far more insidious.

I’ll carry on just not being a racist without the need to add my name to some Good Girls list.

This.

Donald Trump thinks gender ideology is bullshit, friend Walz signed a mandate to allow trans kids to come to his state for free gender affirming care.

Guess I'm a MAGA 😂

There are all kinds of people on Twitter who have all kinds of bollocksy opinions, many of which are IMO cracked or wrong-headed. You could find any number of combinations, probably plenty because we are talking about many many people.

But I think most of the "association" between GC and the far-right , as if they are really somehow in a more significant relation, comes from two sources: one, being TRAs. And the other, "feminists" like JCJ and JB and the rest.

These kinds of letters and articles and constant sniping by the right-on feminist left has done more to Crete the impression that there is some kind of fundamental relationship between far right nutters and the CC movement than anything else.

Either they are too dim to see they are creating the situation they are supposedly trying to avoid, or they are doing exactly what they intended.

What I increasingly think is that it’s very difficult to know where boundaries lie and what constitutes extremism. Being called an extremist for knowing that men can’t be women and daring to use the correct pronouns for sex has opened my eyes to the fact that extremism can be in the eye of the beholder.

So I have seen women on Twitter saying that some aspects of what is happening in the UK in relation to Islam concerns them.

I have seen it suggested that Sharia courts are being tolerated in the UK. I’ve seen it suggested that the UK government have given some consideration to officially accepting some forms of religious court systems, outside of the UK judicial system.

I don’t know how true those things are as there are few sources I trust now. If they are true, I fin those things very concerning.

I look at countries like Afghanistan and see what is happening to women there under men who are clearly extremists. Is it impossible it can happen in the UK? I don’t know, but it makes me uneasy.

I see massive numbers of young men being brought in to the UK as “refugees”. Where are the women and children? Why is this happening? I don’t know, but I do believe in countries where these men have been welcomed, like Sweden, they have caused a surge in crimes against women, and in particular rape.

Does wondering and worrying about those things make me racist? Would going on a march to object to those things make me an extremist? I’m not talking riots, I’m talking peaceful demonstrations.

I can’t see the lines here, other than that when violence occurs, then that is a clear line. The rise of social media has made information (and disinformation) freely available and knowing what is true and what isn’t is worryingly unclear. Back in days gone by, I trusted sources like the BBC, but that’s gone now.

So for me, the situation feels very unstable, and not knowing who is telling the truth, who is telling lies, who is telling an inappropriately slanted version of the truth and so on is a major contributor to that feeling.

So while I am keeping out of this argument and have no intention of going on peaceful marches, I cannot condemn women who choose differently. I don’t believe I am racist, but I do have some concerns over certain religions and cultures which have a terrible attitude towards women. Should women shut up about these concerns? At what point are we allowed to speak?

Thank fuck for that. I thought I was going mad.

This prompted me to revisit Johnathon Haidt's excellent TED talk- (from 11 years ago!). Thank you.

It's so fascinating (and frustrating) seeing the 5 moral values he identifies playing out in all this.

Harm/care
Fairness/reciprocity
Ingroup/loyalty
Authority/respect
Purity/sanctity

Zooming out (as you say), and seeing these conflicts through this lens of moral psychology/philosophy is needed now- increasingly so, IMO.

I know Haidt has books and many talks and interviews, I just think that this one is so clear, and interesting as it was from before the current level of polarisation.
Also, I think he may have been trying to communicate something directly to TED as an organisation- a gentle warning perhaps.

If you find these heated debate threads about right and left compelling, but riling and even entrenching- a talk like this can be a good re-grounding and help to restore a sense of the bigger picture of how we operate as human beings, I've found that anyway.

And from my perspective, we won't find our way out of this huge problem we have with polarisation without pausing to take in this larger perspective.

Anyway, here it is if anyone wants to watch it:

Well yes. The statement clearly talks about social media accounts. I don’t use Twitter much, but I can use Twitter without retweeting racists. I’m sure lots of people manage it.

Is that an acknowledgment that TR is far right?

Agree with every word of this.

Of course lots of different types of people are going to have GC views, because it's the sensible and logical position.

The 'good girls' list is just playing into TRA hands as they try to smear us all with guilt by association. I'm not in a 'tribe'. What PP thinks about anything is no reflection on me, I just happen to agree with her on this issue.

I probably agree with Hitler on animal rights issues, I doubt anyone would extrapolate anything from that though.

We need to firmly reject the guilt he association approach. This is capitulating to it.

i CBA to watch/listen to videos (by anyone)
Is there a tl;dr?

So I have seen women on Twitter saying that some aspects of what is happening in the UK in relation to Islam concerns them.

It's quite telling how @Flibflobflibflob's post on this thread has been ignored. She hasn't been shouted down, because I'm sure certain people realise the optics on that. But she hasn't been engaged with either.

What I got from it is that anyone who disagrees with KJK must be doing so because they are just jealous as all they do is fail and all KJK does is win, win, win. (Which is both excessively self-regarding, and reveals a lack of understanding about how political gains are actually made - we need all of it, the populist stuff and the quiet behind-the-scenes stuff. But she may not believe this and may just be stirring the pot, IDK any more.)

And you are coming onto this board to suggest, it seems, that people who post here are in some way responsibile or 'aligned' with the sorts of posts you don't like.

That is certainly how it comes across......

I think either Southall Black Sisters or the Centre for Secular Space has written about the 'double bind' facing women in some communities. On the receiving end of racism from the right because of their colour, and patronised/ignored by the left due to 'cultural sensitivities' and cultural relativism. It's definitely an area that feminists should be aware of and explore. I don't think it's inherently racist to discuss that, but that doesn't mean that some people aren't racist when they do.

I think there has been a failure of the police & the CPS to protect women more widely. I've been on the receiving end of the police telling me to 'wait till he actually assaults you love' , when an ex-partner was trying to break down my front door. I've never noticed the far right being up in arms about that 'two-tier policing'

It was not meant to be a cryptic post...it is pretty plain and clear what I was saying. You don't need to read anything into it.