Statement on the gender critical movement and the far right

[hellotowel]

https://x.com/GCAntiFarRight/status/1823790909462602205

"We, the undersigned, are deeply disturbed that populist messages particularly targeting Muslims have gained traction among significant numbers of social media accounts associated with the gender critical movement."
Read and sign our statement below.
https://gcantifarright.wordpress.com/2024/08/13/statement-on-gc-movement-and-the-far-right/

Who cares about facts, it's feelings that matter.

But I don't require this. Stating that I want clear water between me and, say, someone who appears to be bigging up the National Front is just that. I'm not requiring anyone else to do anything, I'm stating where I am.

I don't hold with the "shhh, don't criticise anyone with more power than you" option.

What's the difference between me criticising them and you criticising me, then? Or is it perfectly reasonable for us both just to, y'know, talk about stuff?

Also, I'm not embedded in left wing activism the way I once was, but I know enough people in that world that my immediate response to these regular open letters is "well, I don't think much of your associations"

Yep.

But I don't require this.

IMO that's the purpose of the letter, and what many of the signatories require. I'm not the only person to perceive this. It's not about you and me.

Also Annie, you are a decent poster who I agree with on very many things, as you know, and no doubt disagree on some things, and aren't just stirring. In my opinion the same doesn't apply to every poster on this thread.

Well, it is about you and me because we're both here discussing it, and talking about whether we are allowed to think it's OK that they've written it.

I'm more than fine with them writing it. If you don't agree with it, don't sign it. Even if you do agree with it you don't have to sign it.

Right. So that’s what you and others perceive, and that’s all fine and valid. But if anyone perceives some people are building links with the far right that they perceive damages ‘the cause’ they think is important they should shut the fuck up about it.

One of the main assumptions behind your point, I think, is that there is such a thing as a 'GC movement' - and that this movement is necessarily based on shared values; in the same way a political party or another such association might.

The thing is, when you come onto Mumsnet, and onto this board in particular, and try to link people here with what other people who also believe in biological reality say on twitter, is that you are further imagining and reinforcing this idea of a unified organised grouping of some sort.

What is now referred to as 'GC' pretty much started here, and with small groups of other women throughout the country - who, mostly, had always very much been of the Left/Green - getting together to raise awareness and consciousness, and to organise and educate.

It took years for the media and even government to be discussing the issue. You'll remember that Labour's mantra was " No debate" and "TWAW". Now that this issue has made it to centre stage of course all sorts of people are going to take it up as a talking point; are going to tweet about it and so on......That a large variety of people of all persuasions understand the nature of biological sex and its reality should not come as a surprise.

Another important issue is that many of us have become super critical of Left/Progressive politics - primarily because of the appalling way we have been treated by those who claim Left/progressive 'identities' - and we have now come to value free speech and the need to push back against the politics of intersectionalism and 'identity' - that gave birth to trans ideology.

Trans ideology has truly shifted the ground from under our feet and many of us now occupy critical positions of the sort we might not once have done. That doesn't make the GC movement 'far right', nor does it mean we "amplify" far right politics, but that many of us are now super critical of post moderrnistic campus theories and of those that follow them religiously.

I've made my view quite clear, and I'm not going to discuss it because you have already tried to impugn me for things that that I haven't said but which you've inferred, @BackToLurk

I am equally allowed to come on this thread and criticise people for being divisive and using these kind of tactics.

Another important issue is that many of us have become super critical of Left/Progressive politics - primarily because of the appalling way we have been treated by those who claim Left/progressive 'identities' - and we have now come to value free speech and the need to push back against the politics of intersectionalism and 'identity' - that gave birth to trans ideology.

Trans ideology has truly shifted the ground from under our feet and many of us now occupy critical positions of the sort we might not once have done. That doesn't make the GC movement 'far right', nor does it mean we "amplify" far right politics, but that many of us are now super critical of post moderrnistic campus theories and of those that follow them religiously.

Yes. This.

Thank you - I appreciate this. I also understand why this has become a really contentious topic, because we've collectively been great, so far, about working across political lines. I just think we've got into a sort of doomed spiral of what we are allowed to disagree with each other on. And my position is: everything! We're allowed to disagree with each other on what we want to! And in 99% that won't stop me wanting to work alongside anyone, support them in their women's rights work, and hoping that they will support mine. But there are things that will stop me wanting to work alongside someone, as is my right, and as is your right.

I just think we've got into a sort of doomed spiral of what we are allowed to disagree with each other on. And my position is: everything! We're allowed to disagree with each other on what we want to! And in 99% that won't stop me wanting to work alongside anyone, support them in their women's rights work, and hoping that they will support mine. But there are things that will stop me wanting to work alongside someone, as is my right, and as is your right.

Yes, absolutely.

you have already tried to impugn me for things that that I haven't said but which you've inferred,

Such as?

People are entitled to associate with anyone that they share an affinity with. We can agree with all sorts of people on certain issues, and not on others. This is fairly normal

It is only when you have a mind set that suggests that everyone you know or associate with, or agree with on any matter, must all be of the same sort of social tribe - that you feel able come up with such broad brush generalisations.

I've come to appreciate and understand, for example, the importance of boundaries and borders - the symbolic and the actual .......in a time when 'openness' and 'fluidity' are all the rage....Does this make me 'far right'?

Maybe on some level it does...especially if you dismiss the need for boundaries in the name of globalisation or internationalism; or in the name of 'gender fluidity' and the individual's right to be " their best self" and " all that they can be" and so on ( which I actually perceive as being the apotheosis of late stage american consumerism and the politics of the individual)

What part of "I'm not going to discuss it" was hard to understand exactly?

What do you mean by " working alongside"?

Can you give some examples of this in action.

Yep, people are entitled to associate with anyone they share an affinity with, and people are equally entitled not to associate with people who hold views that they think are abhorrent. No one has to be everybody's friend just because they know what a woman is.

Some people's boundaries include not amplifying (for want of a better word) people who post bollocks like 'you can't criticise Allah without getting thrown in prison' some people's boundaries don't. It's all fine, although apparently it isn't.

Whe you say " bigging up the National Front" I suspect you might be referring to those who have taken more of a zoomed out overview of contemporary political polarisation, and now tend to see matters in terms of general patterns and shifts in the collective and at a societal level - whereby those deemed to be of the Left tend to value certain types of thing, and those of the Right tend to value other types of thing.

When you take a more objective look in this way then you can see that 'right' type value systems have just as much worth or validity as 'left' type value systems - and simply demonising people who associate more on the right just increases polarisation and the politics of moral superiority.......which is exactly how people like Owen Jones operate. Sanctimonious and morally certain that everyone else is a Hillary Clinton type " deplorable".

Was she 'bigging up' the National Front? Or do you just not understand the point she made?

Another important issue is that many of us have become super critical of Left/Progressive politics - primarily because of the appalling way we have been treated by those who claim Left/progressive 'identities' - and we have now come to value free speech and the need to push back against the politics of intersectionalism and 'identity' - that gave birth to trans ideology.

Trans ideology has truly shifted the ground from under our feet and many of us now occupy critical positions of the sort we might not once have done. That doesn't make the GC movement 'far right', nor does it mean we "amplify" far right politics, but that many of us are now super critical of post moderrnistic campus theories and of those that follow them religiously.

Absolutely.

I think for me my disillusionment with left/progressive politicos came earlier, and on trans I moved from reflexive allyship (with some very moderate reservations around self-ID and transing children) to a much more critical position. At least partly because it became obvious that you weren't allowed to have moderate reservations.

But I distrust the left/progressive "identity" if you like, because I've seen up close how it enables bad actors, from rapists and woman-beaters to fraudsters to antisemites, to enjoy a kind of halo as long as they're seen as having the right ideology and - important this - having some kind of status in "the movement".

I also know first hand how they'll throw around accusations like "objectively pro-fascist" when you call them out on their bullshit. It's not simply annoying, because I'm not at all pro-fascist, it's also literally silencing because if they label you fascist-adjacent, they're saying that you're an enemy of the people and should be assaulted on sight. Because even if Simon Edge or JCJ or whoever don't want you to be assaulted, even if they think it's just magic words to protect them from cooties, there are people who are willing to act on it.

I've outgrown most of my youthful Marxism, but at least that had a bit of substance. The left/progressive milieu now basically follows Foucault. And if reading Foucault leads you to think that every social interaction is an insincere power play, then you've discovered the secret of how these people function.

If I read something that makes sense to me, I don't always check or care about the political affiliations or other views of the person sharing it, because it's not why I'm sharing it. So I will share things I agree with whether Jane Clare Jones or Matt Walsh wrote them. I think this is often difficult for more tribal types to understand.

I simply don't have the headspace for factional fighting. I believe to my bones that a woman is an adult human female. That's it, I have no allegiances and no alliances beyond that one issue.

My twitter is thinning out as I unfollow countless GCs whose accounts have shifted to promote unrelated causes. It started with the marches for Palestine and now it's about two tier policing. They're entitled to promote their views as they wish but I'm sticking to my personal cause.

Absolutely this.

When you talking about "being friends", what do you mean?

From my persepctive I think far too many people have a deep need to belong to a group and feel that having lots of 'friends' is desirable. Often it turns out that these 'friends' exist only in the mind, or on social media; and also these sort of 'friendship' groupings can get you excluded very quickly for the slightest 'wrong think' or smallest wrong step.

When people express, according to their own level of education or verbal dexterity, that they feel that there is a double standard operating whereby, for example, it is open season on criticising Christians (such as Katie Forbes during the SNP leadership election) whilst simultaneously lionising Islam ( New Muslim SNP leader shown at prayer in Bute House with his male relatives - as if this is some sort of 'progressive' success) - that is not "bollocks" at all. It is a valid observation.

Two tier policing has been very much in evidence recently....with Jews being arrested..whilst Gaza protestors scream anti semtic abuse and wave flags demonising Israel...without any police action at all......or when women gather to speak and trans activists, wearing masks, turn up screaming abuse: screaming " Fascist" and " scum" at you.......and the police do nothing at all. And this is outside of the Labour party conference and some of those screaming abuse are Trade union officials and Labour party delegates.

The letter doesn't 'single out' 'GC' feminists. It is written and signed by people who are 'GC' who want to put clear blue water between themselves and the 'GC' people who are being influenced by and amplifying anti-Muslim, populist, far right hate. I can see that they believe this is necessary because a connection between 'GC' and the far right is in the public domain and they want no part of that.

I signed it when I was contacted and asked to sign it for exactly this reason.