Imane Khelif

[LHayday]

Just reading the thread on here for the first time. What I fail to understand is why so many contributors are so desperate for her to be a man. Someone who has lived their entire life as a woman. Beggars belief.

It's not about gender identity, it's about sex.

A simple way to solve the sport situation and preserve the female catagories below.

In the vast majority of people XX = female and XY = male.
So the cheek swab test is used as a screen. If a person with a DSD is identified, this can then be looked at in more detail. Once the DSD is known, it is clear if the person has male advantage or not. This can be done on a case by case basis. Anyone with male advantage does not compete in the female catagory, they can compete in the open/male catagory. I would rename all male catagories 'open'.

Have you read JKR's posts? Which one said she hated trans women? Or did someone tell you she's a transphobe and you thought 'that's good enough for me'?

Then again, you've commented here without parsing the reams of previous debates, or even rtft.

No woman would consider having XX chromosomes ‘private medical information’

The moment a woman is visibly pregnant her XX status becomes public knowledge, except maybe for people with a complete lack of common sense.

So a poster comes on here at this point in the long, careful, well-researched, and sometimes well-pissed-off, discussion about eligibility in women's boxing, and expects us to repeat it all here now so as not to put them to the trouble of having to read stuff we've written - sorry, no.

If you don't want to engage with the discussion on this thread in its entirety, that's up to you, but we're moving on, WotsYourExcuse, and we don't need a dragging anchor. A maritime reference, not rhyming slang.

The future of women's amateur boxing may depend on this new body that's being formed, World Boxing - not to be confused with the World Boxing Organisation, or the World Boxing Association, or the World Boxing Council. Maybe Item 1 on the agenda should be 'A more original and less confusing name'!

WB is still in development, and could go the way of 'inclusivity' in women's boxing, like the IOC - you are a woman if you say you are and who are we to stop you boxing other women, regardless of your biological sex?
or the way of the WBC which stated '"Women are different to men in several ways - muscular, bone structure, hormonally, so it was decided never to allow a woman to fight a man." (WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman) and instead proposed a separate category for transgender boxers for 'safety' reasons, implying that they take 'sex' to mean biological sex, not self-identified sex.

Applying pressure to World Boxing to go down the route of fairness and safety is probably the only way to capitalise on the Khelif/Lin cases and move this issue forward, instead of circling back endlessly over previous discussions.

Gender or sex?

I don’t believe that JK Rowling hates trans people either, nor any posters here. But I understand your point. The issue with sports though is very simple.

Has an athlete got XX chromosomes?

Does an athlete produce testosterone from testes that their body processes?

If you have read the thread (or any of the about 10 threads about this issue) you would have seen links to and discussion around the IBA tests. These tests established chromosomes, that were not XX. The medical advisory team then established that these athletes had been through male puberty and had male pubertal advantages. That was the basis for their decisions and they released statements about this. They were clear about this.

So, you are right. It should not be just about chromosomes. And the decision made by the IBA was not solely based on chromosomes.

A dragging anchor? I love that I can learn so much on FWR.

I think we're well past having to argue this when JK is calling trans women blokes, denying the Holocaust, and supporting people who say they want trans people sterilised. The fact she's currently busy deleting her tweets calling an Olympic-gold-medal-winning woman a man should show you even she knows she's gone wrong somewhere.

Well firstly 'transwomen' are men. Basic statement of fact. T

Secondly, no she's not a holocaust denier, don't be an imbecile.

Thirdly, what? Sterilise who?

Don't come on here and talk nonsense. You'll do much better. Like we by

You do know that medical transitioning destroys fertility, right?

She uses the sex based language for male people, and particularly for those who abuse her.

Do you believe a woman is allowed to use accurate sex based language to discuss her abuse and her abusers? Or do you support the abusers and their rights to coercively control what language the women they abuse use?

Please do post the evidence of the denials of the Holocaust? And that she supports people who want anyone sterilised?

Plus, how would anyone know their own gender for sure until it was tested?

You can't test for "gender". You test for sex.

Please do post the evidence of the denials of the Holocaust? And that she supports people who want anyone sterilised?

It's just bad faith twisting of words.

“The fact she's currently busy deleting her tweets calling an Olympic-gold-medal-winning woman a man should show you even she knows she's gone wrong somewhere.”

No tweets deleted from her timeline on this topic. I just checked. They are all still there.

Where the fuck did you get that bit of falsity?

Always the same handful of accusations isn't it? It's so obvious this stuff is coming from genderist echo chambers not reading a variety of sources and perspectives followed by first person thinking, assessing, cross-examination and drawing ones own conclusions.

Absolutely!

for the absence of doubt i would be as happy as larry if she called me a man on twitter!

i could really do with a large sum of money…mainly to prove that i will not be affected by riches

(i will absolutely be affected, i would make an awful rich person)

I am rather intrigued now as to where the misinformation that Joanne Rowling was deleting her tweets has come from. Because it is so clearly very easy to check, yet someone just accused her of this.

Or is this like Marsh declaring that she is off Twitter because she is ‘scared’ of the investigation when she had indicated that she was going on holiday? FFS, some
people really don’t seem to be able to sort falsehoods from truth.

Or is this like Marsh declaring that she is off Twitter because she is ‘scared’ of the investigation

Sorry @Helleofabore who is Marsh? I went out last night and my brain is not fully awake yet!

Proof or you are chatting shit

I mean you are actually chatting shit but i do like to be fair

Transwomen are blokes so i will give you that one…

You cannot do a test for what is in someone's imagination......which is where the concept of gender lives. Chromosomes tests are the foolproof method for determining sex.

I'm not sure you are being entirely genuine with this post, as it displays so much obvious confusuion as to be almost a parody.

The fragrant Jeffrey.

Released a video saying JK was scared and that is why she is not tweeting at the moment. Errr. No. Marsh… She indicated she was going on holiday.

Ah yes, him. Thank you!

There are a lot of people who can't define what a woman is, let alone imagine there are ways to determine sex, yet believe theres a need for womens sports categories.

Its back to we dont know what a woman is, but he definitely is a woman.

Oh yes that is fabulous! I’m going to use that - the fact it also functions in a Cockney rhyming slang way is brilliant. Who said it originally on the thread?