Imane Khelif

[LHayday]

Just reading the thread on here for the first time. What I fail to understand is why so many contributors are so desperate for her to be a man. Someone who has lived their entire life as a woman. Beggars belief.

How was Caster treated abysmally? Actually being told what issue he has his surely better than being treated like a fool?
What about the women who lost out when he beat them?

If you know this is a DSD case, what are you actually arguing about? Is your position that even though IK is a male they should be allowed to fight in women’s boxing? Because they apparently “lived as a woman”?

the significant body of evidence that IK is male is references repeatedly in this thread. I’m not going to repeat it because you can’t read the thread.

We cannot expect Imane's team to be openly honest about Imane's being XY with or without a DSD, or male, or a man, because the ground they've staked is that Imane is a woman and therefore was OK to compete against women. At the same time, they haven't and aren't going to claim that Imane is XX, a typical woman, because the results don't say that (if they did, we can assume they'd be released), the results can be proved (my understanding is that the IBA didn't actually release the results because they legally cannot), and it's visually fairly evident that Imane is not a typical XX woman. Instead, we're seeing this hedging about chromosome problems, "despite" karoytypes, not a trans issue, etc., and the "was raised as a woman, believes herself to be a woman," etc. assertions, and the makeover with the heavy makeup and whatnot. (Side note, I haven't seen much or anything like that about Lin, at least not so strongly asserted.) Many people who believe Imane to be a woman have accepted the explanation that Imane is an XY female/woman, because of reasons, and it seems that this is what IK's team is betting on. The team has no reason to willingly release the results unless and until there's a court case like Semenya's where it's revealed that IK is XY 5ARD. In the meantime, the medals have still been won and Semenya still asserts that internal testicles [sic] don't make Semenya less of a woman. I think IK's team is using Semenya as somewhat of a model except I don't think Semenya ever had a GlamourShots session for a beauty company.

Caster semenya knew they were male, but insisted on running in the women's category, depriving women of money, status and medals. It's not caster who was treated abysmally.

Do you think you can drag your eyes off the men just for one second?

Khelif's OWN COACH has said there is a "chromosome problem".

WHAT do you think this means? If they had normal XX females chromosomes there wouldn't be a problem, would there?
Therefore, they have abnormal chromosomes.

Therefore, a DSD in other words.
It's not fucking rocket science.

JusteanBiscuits · Today 15:30

I have read the whole thread.

It doesn't appear that way. If you have, you should realise that he's failed two independent "gender" (sex) tests in two different countries. The IBA have stated that and the WBC and EBU have confirmed that they have seen the results and that the IBA is correct.

Thanks to hihelenhi you can see that his doctor did, indeed, say that he's XY.

Etc etc etc.

The very fact that this is a story shows that this isn't a case of typical XX athletes. The goal is to hustle and guff the public via fudging language into accepting XY people competing against XX people. It has been for some time, this is just the latest version. Why? Because it's easier for men to win against women.

This. So tedious that people who aren't informed fully keep popping up with their Russia based conspiracy theories as a gotcha

The phrase "not in so many words" comes to mind. I would add too that the doubts about the tests being accurate were also squirrelly, so as to not prompt lawsuits or further questions—just planting the seed of doubt.

I do wonder if this were a bog standard doping case if people would be demanding to see the actual test results. As far as I can tell, when athletes are disqualified for failing a doping test you don’t get hundreds of people running around saying: “BUT WE HAVEN’T SEE THE EVIDENCE WITH OUR OWN EYES!!!”

Yes, I'm always fascinated by how so many people who would never stand for doping and immediately understand how unfair it is look for ways for men in women's sports to not be an issue.

This country is literally burning because people no longer wait for facts. They just believe everything some random on the internet says.

Neat, but unconvincing, attempt at equivalence there.

Speaking of not waiting for facts, major news outlets immediately started reporting that Khelif and Lin were female athletes.

Because there's a lot of money to be made if IK is able to continue competing as a woman without these inconvenient questions continuing to pop up.

hihelenhi · Today 16:02

https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/5/fa9lt6ypbwx5su3z20xxnfzgtao0gy

This important, for the posters demanding evidence:

In boxing, asserted Gabriele Martelle, chair of the IBA coaches commission, “When there is an unfair advantage, people can die.” He also said, “We had two cases of disqualification,” adding a moment later, “They were publicly banned because of the rules.” And: “This is a sport. We have rules. If you cannot comply, I am sorry. It’s not discrimination. It’s just the rules.”

3 Wire Sports has seen the test results and a June 5, 2023 IBA letter to the IOC that says tests of Khelif, one in New Delhi, a prior test in Istanbul at the 2022 world championships, “concluded the boxer’s DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.”

For both Khelif and Lin, the New Delhi test – from, as IBA disclosed Monday, the independent Dr Lal PathLabs – consists of three pages. In part:

The first page provides, along with basic identifying information for each athlete and date and time of sample collection, result summary – “abnormal” – and interpretation – “chromosome analysis reveals Male karyotype.” The second page offers photographic representation of the 22 paired autosomes and then, for each athlete, further depicts an X and a Y chromosome. Page three makes plain that the lab is a “national reference lab” and, as well, accredited by CAP, the Northfield, Illinois-based College of American Pathologists, and certified by the ISO, the Swiss-based International Organization for Standardization.

For TRAs it would be extremely helpful for the two boxers to be seen as women. If a male with a dsd who is xy and has male levels of testosterone* is allowed to compete as a female then a trans identified man would have a reasonable claim for discrimination if he wasn't allowed to compete as a female. Both men are xy, have been through male puberty and have male testosterone levels so the only real difference is that one is trans and the other isn't

• and they can process that testosterone so not CAIS

Well worth a watch, it addresses a lot of the "arguments" we are seeing here.

Knowing what we now know, it seems Caster Semenya was actually allowed way too much benefit of the doubt. We're seeing somewhat of a repeat of that reception years later: female with high testosterone and anyone who raises questions is racist, overinterested in a stranger's genitals, etc.

Another lie

Not a lie.
Doesn't matter how many times you post that it's a lie it still remains true

O yeah thanks for pointing that out where the IBA speaker spoke about the 'sodomite' at the IOC, what a great moment that was, eh.

What lovely figures you call on for evidence.

Quite the XY reference from the coach please.

Sodomite reference here, obviously.

Oh my,you have been busy haven't you?

To be honest this is a completely fair appraisal from @JusteanBiscuits

FWR went on and on and on about how ridiculous it was to say "sex assigned at birth" and that every baby's sex can correctly be identified and that was fundamental and not in question.

The hypocrisy is really showing now.