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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Imane Khelif

805 replies

LHayday · 14/08/2024 20:07

Just reading the thread on here for the first time. What I fail to understand is why so many contributors are so desperate for her to be a man. Someone who has lived their entire life as a woman. Beggars belief.

OP posts:
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28
AncientAndModern1 · 15/08/2024 17:09

Aussieland · 14/08/2024 20:37

SHE

HE

bitesthedust · 15/08/2024 17:16

I’m late to the party

I don’t want to read the other threads or this whole thread…

Can someone clarify for me please:

1- was them born with a vagina?

2 - do they have XX or XY chromossomes?

3- do they - or anyone else know what chromossomes she has for sure?

4- if transsexualitty is ilegal in their country, if their body presents as female but their chromossomes as male, should them just had quit boxing altogether?

Thanks

*edited pronoums

bitesthedust · 15/08/2024 17:16

bitesthedust · 15/08/2024 17:16

I’m late to the party

I don’t want to read the other threads or this whole thread…

Can someone clarify for me please:

1- was them born with a vagina?

2 - do they have XX or XY chromossomes?

3- do they - or anyone else know what chromossomes she has for sure?

4- if transsexualitty is ilegal in their country, if their body presents as female but their chromossomes as male, should them just had quit boxing altogether?

Thanks

*edited pronoums

Edited

Sorry

He, she, they - or whatever else

spannasaurus · 15/08/2024 17:19

What has transexuality being illegal in Algeria got to do with anything? Khelif isn't trans

AncientAndModern1 · 15/08/2024 17:23

XY chromosomes. Khelif’s own coach admitted this in an interview. Plus, crucially, Khelif HAS NEVER EVEN DENIED IT.
Born with female-looking external genitals as is quite common in 5-ARD - actually malformed scrotum.
Yup. Has known for over a year at least. The coach admitted this and that they’d sent a sample to a Paris hospital which confirmed XY chromosomes & male levels of testosterone (which comes from internal testicles.
Yes. A person whose body benefitted from male puberty and all that testosterone should not be competing in women’s sport. Time to ‘retire’ and start coaching or whatever ex boxers do. Lack of a normal pe is is irrelevant.

HootyMcBooby · 15/08/2024 17:25

Time to stop boxing AND to hand back the medal they won illegitimately KNOWING they were male and had a male advantage.

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:26

AncientAndModern1 · 15/08/2024 17:23

XY chromosomes. Khelif’s own coach admitted this in an interview. Plus, crucially, Khelif HAS NEVER EVEN DENIED IT.
Born with female-looking external genitals as is quite common in 5-ARD - actually malformed scrotum.
Yup. Has known for over a year at least. The coach admitted this and that they’d sent a sample to a Paris hospital which confirmed XY chromosomes & male levels of testosterone (which comes from internal testicles.
Yes. A person whose body benefitted from male puberty and all that testosterone should not be competing in women’s sport. Time to ‘retire’ and start coaching or whatever ex boxers do. Lack of a normal pe is is irrelevant.

I wish the lies on this thread would stop.

Imane's coach has never said she has XY chromosomes.

ChaChaChooey · 15/08/2024 17:30

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:26

I wish the lies on this thread would stop.

Imane's coach has never said she has XY chromosomes.

You cannot fail a female sports eligibility chromosome test if you don’t have a Y chromosome.

HootyMcBooby · 15/08/2024 17:30

Imane's coach said "they have chromosome problem" and that Imane was "upset they might not be a woman".
What do YOU think this means?
In conjunction with the fact that two separate labs ran chromosome tests at different times and both came back with XY dna?
And the fact of their physical appearance?
And the fact they failed "gender" testing?
And the fact that their OWN team appear to treat them as male?
And the fact that Imane themselves has refused to publicise their test results?
And the fact that Imane themselves dropped their appeal? Why would they do that if they could easily show the chromosome results of a female?

Given all of that, you honestly think this person has female chromosomes?

SinnerBoy · 15/08/2024 17:31

Christinapple · Today 15:40

I've seen posts here on other related threads (can't remember which ones, the board is half-full of them now) implying Imane "can't be a woman" because she hasn't been seen wearing a hijab (which btw is optional in Algeria, not mandatory), and because after winning gold she was carried on the shoulders of her male trainer (we seem to have some Algerian culture experts on here).

Let's start at the beginning, he's failed two independent "gender" i.e. sex tests, carried out by tow independent clinics, in two independent countries. Both clinics were and are sanctioned by the IOC and approved by the ISO. That much is beyond contention.

We also know that in religiously conservative rural Algeria, the girls mostly stay indoors, Khelif was out by theyself, playing football with the boys.

Women in that society ALWAYS cover their hair, Khelif does not. In such societies, there is no touching between the opposite sexes, in public. Any touching will be from a husband, or father. Khelif's coach patted Khelif on the pectoral area, after a win. He also carried Khelif on his shoulders; are you honestly saying that he'd have touched a woman in the groin, with his neck?

He also rearranged his "lunchbox" in the middle of the ring, after one fight. Women in general don't (need) to do that and I suspect, a Muslim woman would 100% not do any touching in that area, in front of a large crowd.

These cultural observations are simply supporting evidence, complimenting the hard, scientific evidence that we have.

The only logical conclusion is that, not only is he a man and one who acts like a man, but also, everyone connected with him knows perfectly well that he's a man.

AncientAndModern1 · 15/08/2024 17:32

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:26

I wish the lies on this thread would stop.

Imane's coach has never said she has XY chromosomes.

Liar yourself. What on earth do you think ‘despite her karyotype and testosterone level’ and ‘problem with her chromosomes’ means?

Imane Khelif
suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:35

ChaChaChooey · 15/08/2024 17:30

You cannot fail a female sports eligibility chromosome test if you don’t have a Y chromosome.

We really are going round in circles aren't we.

You appear to be alluding to IBA information, an organisation which is shady, was found to be involved in match fixing at previous Olympics, employed tests which lacked protocol, were arbitrary and targeted and gave rise to different results at different times, allowing Imane to compete in 2022 after tests that year.

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:36

AncientAndModern1 · 15/08/2024 17:32

Liar yourself. What on earth do you think ‘despite her karyotype and testosterone level’ and ‘problem with her chromosomes’ means?

Karyotype refers to an individual's complete set of chromosomes, it does not entail a simple XX / XY situation.

ChaChaChooey · 15/08/2024 17:37

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:35

We really are going round in circles aren't we.

You appear to be alluding to IBA information, an organisation which is shady, was found to be involved in match fixing at previous Olympics, employed tests which lacked protocol, were arbitrary and targeted and gave rise to different results at different times, allowing Imane to compete in 2022 after tests that year.

It’s not IBA info - all they did was send IK for the tests.

The 2 labs are independent and the tests were carried out a year apart.

Do you always see Russian conspiracy everywhere?

spannasaurus · 15/08/2024 17:39

spannasaurus · 15/08/2024 12:55

So you can't name a single issue with the two accredited labs

Have you managed to come up with any particular issue with the accredited labs yet?

AncientAndModern1 · 15/08/2024 17:39

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:35

We really are going round in circles aren't we.

You appear to be alluding to IBA information, an organisation which is shady, was found to be involved in match fixing at previous Olympics, employed tests which lacked protocol, were arbitrary and targeted and gave rise to different results at different times, allowing Imane to compete in 2022 after tests that year.

Khelif’s own coach has admitted it! He has put Khelif on drugs to reduce testosterone levels from the male range. A woman with XX chromosomes does not fail a sex test (this one was ordered by Khelif’s team from a big Paris hospital. A woman with XX chromosomes does not have testosterone in the male range without doping. A woman with XX chromosomes would say ‘I don’t have XY chromosomes. I have XX chromosomes’.

ChaChaChooey · 15/08/2024 17:40

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:36

Karyotype refers to an individual's complete set of chromosomes, it does not entail a simple XX / XY situation.

The ONLY way to fail the female category test is to have a Y.

XX - pass
XY - Fail
XXY - Fail
XO - Pass (but not healthy enough to be a Gold Medal Winning Olympian).

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:41

ChaChaChooey · 15/08/2024 17:37

It’s not IBA info - all they did was send IK for the tests.

The 2 labs are independent and the tests were carried out a year apart.

Do you always see Russian conspiracy everywhere?

Actually you don't know the protocol if those tests as the IBA haven't revealed the tests that were carried out.

They said they were sent to accredited labs, namely WADA, but WADA has confirmed they are purely involved with issues of doping in athletes and don't oversee issues of sex testing.

At the recent farcical televised interview leading figures of the IBA couldn't even agree themselves what tests had been carried out...one seemed to think chromosome tests had been carried out, another seemed to think it was testosterone tests.

You'd think they could at least get their story straight for the cameras.

HootyMcBooby · 15/08/2024 17:41

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:36

Karyotype refers to an individual's complete set of chromosomes, it does not entail a simple XX / XY situation.

Yes, but it also identifies the sex chromosomes. 22 pairs of autosomes and 1 pair of sex chromosomes.

AncientAndModern1 · 15/08/2024 17:42

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:36

Karyotype refers to an individual's complete set of chromosomes, it does not entail a simple XX / XY situation.

what other chromosomal issue would affect a person’s eligibility to play sports?
Come off it. You know what ‘a problem with her chromosomes’ plus male testosterone levels means.

NecessaryScene · 15/08/2024 17:42

tests ... gave rise to different results at different times

And what were the "different" test results, exactly? You're on far far shakier ground on that assertion than the stuff you're nitpicking about - you are clearly intending to deceive.

ChaChaChooey · 15/08/2024 17:42

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:41

Actually you don't know the protocol if those tests as the IBA haven't revealed the tests that were carried out.

They said they were sent to accredited labs, namely WADA, but WADA has confirmed they are purely involved with issues of doping in athletes and don't oversee issues of sex testing.

At the recent farcical televised interview leading figures of the IBA couldn't even agree themselves what tests had been carried out...one seemed to think chromosome tests had been carried out, another seemed to think it was testosterone tests.

You'd think they could at least get their story straight for the cameras.

Seems like it’s you that’s using the IBA as a source, not me.

spannasaurus · 15/08/2024 17:43

And additional tests for an SRY gene were likely carried out in the second lot of tests

suggestionsplease1 · 15/08/2024 17:43

spannasaurus · 15/08/2024 17:39

Have you managed to come up with any particular issue with the accredited labs yet?

Yes they were WADA accredited labs, and WADA has a remit of overseeing doping in sport, not sex testing.

AncientAndModern1 · 15/08/2024 17:46

Let’s put aside the IBA ordered tests at the accredited labs. Khelif’s own coach admitted that tests at a renowned university hospital in Paris found a ‘problem’ with Khelif’s chromosomes AND testosterone. Are you going to blame the Russians for that too?

Imane Khelif