Imane Khelif

[LHayday]

Just reading the thread on here for the first time. What I fail to understand is why so many contributors are so desperate for her to be a man. Someone who has lived their entire life as a woman. Beggars belief.

The precident was set by the IOC regarding how the Caster Semenya situation was handled. Now we know that a 'woman with high testosterone' can absolutely mean 'a male person with 46XY 5ARD'. We know that the IOC (and others, including medical professionals) is quite capable of using Humpty Dumpty language when it suits them.

I understand it in the same way as I understand the following:

Despite the grass being wet it is sunny outside.

It is sunny.

Despite of her karyotype and testosterone levels, Imane is a woman.

Imane is a woman.

'Woman' means 'anyone who says they are a woman', or was it 'anyone with an 'F' in their passport'?

Humpty-flipping-Dumpty a word means whatever I want it to mean make believe.

They are saying "despite" as in, "regardless of those results", she is a woman.
Which means she does not have typical chromosomes for a female (XX) otherwise they would not even mention it.

Which means they have XY chromosomes (male).

I'm not sure how much more simple it needs to be.
This person has XY chromosomes.

But not a female athlete.

You have left out the key information in your response, though.

A correct rendering would be:

"Despite Khelif's male karyotype and male testosterone levels, Khelif is a woman"

This must be so, otherwise there would be no need to use "despite", and one would just say Khelif has the karyotype and testosterone of a woman.

Now that we've established this, what criteria, other than genetic makeup and testosterone, is the endocrinologist using to define "woman"? Because it can't be sex and must therefore be socio-cultural.

Unmooring the word "woman" from femaleness is indeed silly. I'm glad you are starting to see that at last.

Surely you mean:

Despite the grass being dry it is wet
It is wet.

Despite of her karyotype and testosterone levels, Imane is a woman.
Imane is a woman.

But that's silly.

You could easily say 'Despite having mastectomies for both breasts and having never had a baby, she is still a woman'

You wouldn't have a problem with that would you?

I wouldn't have a problem with that statement because it's true.

Whereas you can't be a woman if you have an XY karyotype and produce high levels of testosterone, in the male range.

But nowhere has it been reported that the renowned endocrinologist said there were XY chromosomes 🤷‍♂️

All the semantics about the use of 'despite' is an irrelevant distraction.

Jesus Christ, of course a woman who has had a mastectomy is still a woman.

Are you suggesting otherwise?

Are you honestly not seeing that the word "despite" here means that this person has MALE - NOT FEMALE chromosomes? That's clear to everyone apart from you apparently.

Has it even been revealed who this "renowned endocrinologist" even IS?

Well then everyone is drawing an incorrect conclusion then.

You do not have the evidence from the renowned endocrinologist of the presence of XY Chromosomes.

You have to take motivations into account. This is not an occasion for total honesty; it's one for fudging and plausible deniability. For example, if a team of people with money hanging in the balance wanted to run a male athlete against female athletes because of the stronger likelihood of a win.

Dunno.

What are the names of the IBA testers?

The "renowned endocrinologist" is not the only person who has spoken on the matter.

So where are we now?

We have two tests from different independent labs in different countries producing results saying that these athletes have XY chromosomes as per Dr. Ioannis Filippatos (Surgeon, Sport Medicine Doctor, and Ob/Gyn Specialist). Confirmed by IBA, WBO and EBC.

We have the French endocrinologist saying “ despite of her karyotype and her testosterone levels. He said : “There is a problem with her hormones, and with her chromosomes, but she's a woman.”

And then we have an Algeria doctor who monitored the testosterone suppression (Sorry that I wrongly missed out this doctor too). “We then worked with an Algeria-based doctor to control and regulate Imane's testosterone levels, which are currently in the female range.”

I think it remarkable that anyone is relying on the word ‘woman’ when we have two specialists referring to karotypes. And a specialist and a doctor referring to testosterone levels that are not in the range for female people without suppression.

Aahhh, but they are the only one that Suggestions cares about. They are renowned after all and must have some higher level gnostic knowledge about the mysteries of 'woman essence'.

If it helps, the mention of an issue with the chromosome is in the IBA's letter to the IOC, published online and on multiple threads.

See the link within this official webpage dated 5th June 2023 to 'official correspondence to the IOC':

www.iba.sport/news/iba-clarifies-the-facts-the-letter-to-the-ioc-regarding-two-ineligible-boxers-was-sent-and-acknowledged/

So...he didn't know what karyotype IK had, when he said that IK was a woman despite it?
Or he was saying that despite having XX karyotype, IK was a woman?

The boxers were tested twice. The results of the tests was leaked. XY.
The endocrinologist, whose field of expertise is hormones, advised about lowering serum testosterone to the female range. Only the testes can produce enough testosterone to put a person in the male range.

Good call.

Not really.

I am just pointing out that you can as easily discredit one as you can the others.

There are plenty of reasons to doubt the IBA process and results, as I am sure you will already be aware, they have been discussed multiple times in the media.

If you want to take their word as god, why on earth would you surprised if others choose not to, and believe someone else?

https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/3/0d4ucn50bmvbndhhqjohaneccoqueq